March 25, 2010

Preachers, power, and the pulpit

Posted: 09:15 AM ET

Defendant Matt Baker was a pastor who allegedly took advantage of his position as a leader in his church. He counseled Vanessa Bulls after her divorce, and then slept with her.  Now he's accused of killing his wife Kari, so he could be with Vanessa.

Of course, not all pastors abuse their power. But they are often held up as examples of how to lead a moral lifestyle and as powerful examples of perfection.  That's a heavy responsibility and it can lead to problems.

In Session’s Ryan Smith talked to televangelist Juanita Bynum about the pressures of the pulpit.

Filed under: Trials

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Paul Conklin   March 25th, 2010 9:48 am ET

Vanessa Bulls could have prevented the murder of Kari Baker simply by informing Kari Baker of what she knew or going to the authorities about it. Although I understand that the prosecution used her as their star witness to nail Matt Baker, I feel that she should be charged with a crime. Why isn't Vanessa Bulls facing jail time? If she had just opened her mouth she could have prevented a murder.

Paul C.

Denise, Florida   March 25th, 2010 9:48 am ET

I feel Vanessa should also feel ashamed that a woman may have been murdered for her and she was not even in love or attracted to Matt. She is just as deceitful. She was just looking for stability and for someone to take care of her and her child and to make her feel safe.

BJ   March 25th, 2010 9:49 am ET

Just as sure as this man killed his wife, the mistress is complicit in that act; and should be locked up. She should loose her job, her child, and Kari's parents should sue her in the wrongful death of their daughter, after they've sued this man. They both took Kari away from her girls, and, they should investigate the death of the child that died; because I do believe this man is responsible for his child's death.

mary C   March 25th, 2010 10:02 am ET

Vanessa Bulls is not a good person. She allowed Kari Baker to die, because she is as evil as Matt Baker is. She claimed she was afraid. A good person with moral judgement would have contacted the police as soon as she hears another person planning the death of someone's else.
She is guilty, too. And to think she will continue living among us free to do whatever she wants! It is disgusting.

Pam   March 25th, 2010 10:05 am ET

I have been watching this case, and Vanessa Bulls should be charged with conspiracy to commit murder. I think she had a part
in goading Matt Baker into to killing his wife. Why else would you standback and not inform anyone of this plot. I feel she is as guilty
as Matt Baker, she had to have wanted him to kill her, no other reason
for the silence or denial.

Grant   March 25th, 2010 10:07 am ET

Ms. Bulls is so assertive and sure of herself on that witness stand yet claims she is a malleable, vulnerable, "brain washed" victim of Baker's manipulation? She is DIRECTLY responsible for the death of Mrs. Baker!

Grant   March 25th, 2010 10:16 am ET

Bulls is the most selfish, self-serving person in this trial, all she cares about is losing her job...Has she forgotten a woman was murdered, a murder she could have prevented?!

Jim   March 25th, 2010 10:24 am ET

I understand the nuances of court process(s) according to state and county> this is a murder charge, the laid back, talking into your hand and barely audible questions from the attorneys is something that I have never seen. It is apalling! Why is this witness (Bulls) permitted to ramble on and make personal comments in regard to this defendant without objections?

barbara gagnon   March 25th, 2010 10:39 am ET

this vannesa bulls is a very scary woman. i think she was more involved in this murder than is coming out. she has an answer for everything. i wish she would not have been allowed to make a deal and had been prosucted for accessory to the fact. i think they jumped the gun allowing her to do that. is there a chance she could be prosecuted at a later time if more info comes out? hope so.

peggy   March 25th, 2010 10:45 am ET

If Vanessa had went to the police and told them what Matt was going to do to his wife she would be alive today. She is just as guilty. Peggy from N.C.

tgrb   March 25th, 2010 11:10 am ET

I realize this may be a minor point just in case anyone is still deciding on whether or not this was a murder or suicide. A case for murder: isn't the one unpardonable sin in the christian religion suicide? Why would the wife of the cloth commit suicide when their god says the one thing you will not be forgiven for is taking your own life?

Martin ... Canada   March 25th, 2010 11:12 am ET

Have noticed when Ms. Vanessa Bulls is giving evidence, she turns to her right and speaks facing the jury.. This I have seen done by police officers and others who have been to many times. Usually, first time court goers seem to speak towards the legal tables...
Looks like Ms Bulls been in court many times or has been coached....

charles copeland   March 25th, 2010 11:14 am ET

Not sure if I believe that anyone could manipulate Ms. Bull...I know the defense attorney couldn't. She is way to smart for me. However I believe Matt was not thinking with his head, @ least not the one on his shoulders. He would do anything to be with her...careful what you ask for.

Grant   March 25th, 2010 11:17 am ET

Vanessa is so scurrilous, she admits to lying and NOT doing the right thing...and oh yeah, aw shucks someone got killed but don't blame her, she was engaged in a desperate struggle for self preservation for three months after the fact.

pamela massey   March 25th, 2010 11:31 am ET

I believe vanessa should be charge with the crime also.For taking her story of the plan that she knew he was going to kill his wife.She could have stop this crime from being comitted.

pamela massey   March 25th, 2010 11:33 am ET

she shoulfd of told the police what was going to go down.Is is just as guilty.

Sharie   March 25th, 2010 12:06 pm ET

Could you please tell me what Baker's child died of and why was Baker so concerned that they may exhume the child's body. Thank you.

sandy black   March 25th, 2010 12:06 pm ET

I feel especially sorry for Kari's oldest daughter. She suffered the trauma of her younger sister's death and now the death of her mother at the hands of her own father. Matt Davis was not only a cheating husband, but also an unloving father to take away his children's mother from them. Also without a doubt he is a murderer as well.

Ontario Canada

dano   March 25th, 2010 12:07 pm ET

Watching this goofy Ms Bulls testify really makes me ill. I really wonder just how much she may of had to do with this murder. I agree with one comment that Matt Baker makes Scott Petterson look like "Prince Charming".

Matthew Davis   March 25th, 2010 12:15 pm ET

In regards to Vanessa Bulls involvement with the murder is that for Matt she was feeling a void that was opened up by the distance he created between his wife. It is hard to determine any enactment when you can't see the magnitude of the fear of being alone for Matt.

Theresa   March 25th, 2010 12:24 pm ET

I think that it just depends on the individual situation, how long you should wait to remarry after your spouses death. All of Matt Bakers actions after his wife's death are suspicious, especially showing pictures of his mistress to co-workers, clearly speaking of a possible future relationship with her way to soon.

Doreen   March 25th, 2010 12:28 pm ET

Vanessa Bulls and Matt Baker deserve each other. The police didn't ask to search her computer because she kept denying their affair the truth to them over and over again. I find her narcissistic and unsympathetic. She will have to live with this selfish act for the rest of her life.

Sheila   March 25th, 2010 1:00 pm ET

Wasn't there a witness that saw the victim the evening before she died? Did anyone see an abrasion on her nose that evening?

Theresa   March 25th, 2010 1:01 pm ET

Vanessa should absolutely be responsible for her actions in this crime. She knew about the murder before and after it happened and said NOTHING!!!! She even used Kari's cell phone after she died.She knew everything, unbelievable!!

Lisa   March 25th, 2010 1:01 pm ET

Vanessa Bulls is talking as if she left out information about a robbery. This is a MURDER that she went along with. I cant believe that she is completely free. I know this goes on all the time, but for her to consider herself a victim is horrible. I hope the victim's parents do not fall for it. She only cries when it comes to herself pity and only remembers things when it concerns the defendant .... I am horrified


Kay Wintermoyer   March 25th, 2010 1:06 pm ET

Vanessa Bulls is an accessory to murder: before, during and after the crime. At minimum, she should have been charged with hindering a police investigation.

News   March 25th, 2010 1:10 pm ET

Vanessa Bulls was fired from her job – and rightly so, IMHO.

Kassidy – Kari's daughter who died HAD been treated for Cancer and was fine and then out of the blue – very unexpectedly died. Same time of night, found by Matt Baker while he claimed the kids and Kari were sleeping. He further stated in an interview he turned off the tv downstairs came up – check on the girls went into the bedroom and had a "feeling" he should check again. Low and behold – Kassidy was gone. I do hope the exhume her body and if he suffocated her as she was in his way too, I hope he left strong evidence and we will know that he won't ever get out again.
IMHO his statement about going to Kassidy's grave the day they exhumed Kari points to his guilt. There is a friggin set of mountains of evidence against this man. Even if one totally throws out Vanessa Bulls testimony – the 911 call alone shows guilt. The lividity alone shows guilt. He is a sociopath and an eraser killer who should never see the light of day again.
Thank you InSession for bringing this story to light - I hope it helps others living with a sociopath to see the real danger each day brings.

Mike   March 25th, 2010 1:14 pm ET

I think th DA should be punished even FIRED for giving the Bulls broad immunity... She is as guilty as that MURDERING MORON MINISTER!!! I pray that they can find a way to bring some kind of charges against Bulls, she needs to be put in jail for a very, very long time...

Amanda   March 25th, 2010 1:18 pm ET

My question is, did the medical examiner examine their baby that died? Something struck a nerve in me when the lady from Walmart said he told her that is the same way HE found the baby in the fetal position. I wonder if he killed the baby and the wife started suspecting it.

Debra Knight   March 25th, 2010 1:19 pm ET

This woman is sitting there acting like she is morally superior to her ex-lover. NOT! She has the ethics of an insect.

Decent people in her community should shun her.

Ronda   March 25th, 2010 1:23 pm ET

To me I felt he did it when he said Kari took her life because she was so sad over the loss of her child that she had to be with that child which meant she'd leave other children she loved behind. As a mother why would she want her children to feel the pain of losing her that she supposedly felt for the loss of one of her children. I would wonder if she had found out or was suspicious of the affair and he needed an out and this was what he felt was the easiest way out so he wouldn't lose face in the church.

Robert W   March 25th, 2010 1:27 pm ET

Haven't the other 'bloggers' ever heard of immunity given to an accomplice? Sometime it is the only way to gather evidence. I'm not saying she shouldn't have warned Kari or gone to the police...she should have...but thank god there is someone who will reveal the truth and put him behind bars for life (or end his life via: a needle or gas). Maybe the questions from the Grand Jury were incomplete and she was not asked the correct, complete questions. Attorney's are intrumental in formulating GJ questions, maybe they failed miserably. I support the DA for granting her immunity.

Susan B California   March 25th, 2010 1:31 pm ET

There was testimony that Kassidy died unexpectedly (from Kari's mother) and then there was testimony about Matt's reaction to finding out that Kari's body was being exhumed was to go to the cemetery to check on Kari's grave then checking to see if Kassidy's grave had been disturbed. This has really bothered me ... and has me wondering if Matt had anything to do with Kassidy's death. Was there any investigation into this?

Ronda   March 25th, 2010 1:32 pm ET

She only revealed "her truth" when she felt she was going to get in trouble. If they had gone along as they were I think she would have moved in, married him and never said a word but likely used it against him his whole life.

deb   March 25th, 2010 1:46 pm ET

ms bulls should not have been allowed to go on and on as she did. bakers lawyer allowed it because he knows his client is guilty. that side of the table is died in the water. I hope no one hires her to teach anyones child.

Diane   March 25th, 2010 1:52 pm ET

I am curious about Kari's daughters death. If I heard correctly, and according to the grandmother, the child was sent home cancer free and fully expected to recover. Wasn't it said that Matt Baker found her dead in her bed? Was there anything suspicious about that death?

Karen   March 25th, 2010 1:55 pm ET

If I were on this jury, I wouln't believe one word out of Bulls mouth. Unfortunately, it may get him convicted though. Since the forensics were so lacking to prove guilt, she will be the one to possibly push the jury over. I wouldn't believe her though. I think she is just trying to look good (and failed), and distance herself as much as possible from Matt, using anything she can to keep from being prosecuted from purjury and worse.

Ronda   March 25th, 2010 1:56 pm ET

Listening to the emails between Kari and Matt what I take away is she is BEGGING him to tell her he still loves her( write down the reasons, you used to give me little notes) and even more I think she suspected he was being unfaithful( are you busy with your girlfriend). She was trying to save her marriage because he was emotionally absent.

brit   March 25th, 2010 1:57 pm ET

In cases of murder or rape, defence attorneys should ask their client to take a lie detector test, if they pass then represent them, if they fail then they can decide whether or not to represent them. Then at least
the defence attorney won't look like this poor one in the Matt Baker case. No wonder he has to grunt before he speaks the word GUILTY
keeps getting stuck in his throat.

PATTY   March 25th, 2010 1:58 pm ET

The mistress testified that Matt was getting of Kari and then her DNA is found on the sleeping pill bottle next to the bed, so I don't understand why this mistress is not charged with complicity. She was a little too happy to testify against him -she is not the innocent mistress at all!

carla   March 25th, 2010 2:03 pm ET

listening to the emails, it sounds like to me that she was sensing a distancing from him, that she needed reassurance and she sounded a little insecure, instead of painting a picture of a loving relationship, and joking about him having a girlfriend was really her way of giving him a chance to deny it and reassure her...

L.T   March 25th, 2010 2:05 pm ET

Matt Baker's wife did not commit suicide, because she would have been fully clothed, knowing that EMT's etc. would come to the house after she was discovered by him. She was naked because she was waiting for him to come back and be intimate with her.

Linda   March 25th, 2010 2:14 pm ET

First of all I want to say – Don't be so sure that Vanessa Bulls isn't punishing herself daily for what happened. She may feel very Guilty and carry that for the rest of her life. Minimally she faces ridicule in the public eye. I'm Not defending her actions. She is not guilty of murder. She was so young at the time. Matt picked her for a reason, so that he could control her. The person you see testifying is I doubt the same naive person he took advantage of. Please see next post about him.

LuAnn   March 25th, 2010 2:25 pm ET

I don;t even believe the defense attorney believes this guy is innocent.

Debra Knight   March 25th, 2010 2:30 pm ET

Whoa. Wait. The witness is saying that an email cannot be retrieved because they got a new computer. Emails are not on the hard drive of a computer. They are on the server of the company providing the email service. I can look at my emails on any computer with Internet access

Something is strange that this excuse is accepted as reasonable. It is not reasonable.

lisa   March 25th, 2010 2:35 pm ET

I just wonder did Matt Baker have anything to do with his daughter's death he could have planned the whole thing to lead up to the killing of his wife.

terrell   March 25th, 2010 2:42 pm ET

the defense needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat. Amp it up.... I'm falling asleep and I'm sure the jury is too.

lisa   March 25th, 2010 2:47 pm ET

I wish that Vanessa Bull would have went to the police with this information and saved this woman. She will have to live with the fact that she held that womans life in her hands she called his bluff and he followed through those tears are fake i don't feel sorry for cheaters. Matt Baker should be put on death row and never see the light of day.

Sherry Spooner   March 25th, 2010 3:13 pm ET

Not only is Vanessa Bulls a liar, cheat, and adulter I think she shoud be guilty of murder along with Mat Baker. She knew all about it and did nothing to stop it. I certainly would not want her around my husband and children. She cannot be trusted and has lied on the stand. Atleast get her for purgery..

Michael   March 25th, 2010 3:24 pm ET

I think people need to focus more on the victim Kari Baker than Vanessa Bull of course Matt Baker is a religous man but a mother was murdered and yes the affair that they had was wrong but you also have to look at like this even tho Matt Baker is a Minnister doesn't mean he wouldn't lie to save his life he lied to his lawyer about the affair so what makes people think he wouldn't lie about a murder, this is serious people a woman has died and even tho its been 3 to 4 years ago people really deserve to know wat happen she has a family that loves her very much, and if the jury find him guilty he's guilty but if innocent theres nothing any one can do about but Slandering Vanessa Bull name is not going to make this situation better and to some up the story, Vanessa was in love with a controling Minister that she loved very much, so its hard for a woman to come forward and give the testimony she gave so Vanessa you do have supporters stay strong and leave it in Gods hands because if theres one thing I kno is if he's really a religous he cannot run from god because he knows the truth

Tanner   March 25th, 2010 3:35 pm ET

I think the x-mistress should be charge for lying & withholding information from law enforcement. I don't believe this Preacher having power over her. If you want to talk religion, " God," gave humans 1 gift that separates us from other creatures on earth. "CHOICE!" The ability to choose b/w telling the truth or lying,cheating or staying faithful, right or wrong,good or evil,loving or hating, Kill or do not kill. Do or do not, there is no, try. There is no excuse for his x to lie about her involvement in this crime. She's just as guilty even more so for knowingly allowing an innocent person to die because she wanted to take Karie's place. Yeah, it's really rewarding to want to marry a man who killed his wife. In the end they both got nothing. Call it Carma & the "Gods," are laughing!

Ruth   March 25th, 2010 3:40 pm ET

You mean to tell me when Baker took her to his wife's bedroom she didn't know what was going to happen next, Please. This woman apparently thinks the jury fell off a turnip truck yesterday to believe that load of garbage she's shoveling. She may be telling the truth about Baker's plan to murder his wife but she is not the sweet innocent victim she is trying to portray herself as. I don't know how she lives with herself knowing that her fling with a married man she claims she really didn't like led to his wife being murdered so he could be with her. She's as big a jerk as Baker.

MJ Gire   March 25th, 2010 3:51 pm ET

Ms. Bulls is a disgusting human being in my opinion. If she had spent as much time trying to prevent Kari's death as she did trying to cover her own butt Kari would be alive today. Keeping quiet out of fear? I don't think so. She continued to sleep with him months after Kari's death, shopped for an engagement ring, attended birthday parties. Give me a break! And finally, I'm mortified for the family members who have to sit there and look at pictures of their loved one in such an undignified manner. Kari would be mortified!

donna hollar   March 25th, 2010 4:00 pm ET

i don"t honestly think in all my life i have seen a colder,more unfeeling a nd self-serving and remorseless person. does sheEVER remotely accept responsibility for anything? the only thing greater than her arrogance is her rudeness! by the way, are we sureSHE didn"t plan this. she certainly has the arrogance for it.

Debra Knight   March 25th, 2010 4:02 pm ET

Michael, Ms. Bull chose to become involved with a married man. That was all on her. Why are you defending her? She had an affair with a married man. She knew the wife. She knew Kari had lost a young child. Instead of offering friendship and support, she adds to Kari's misery by putting her own momentary pleasure first and foremost. This was disgusting behavior that was more than a one-time mistake. It speaks to Ms. Bull's character and not in a good way.

Jackie   March 25th, 2010 4:08 pm ET

There but the grace of God... this so could have been me. My ex-husband pastor was trying, hoping, praying, I would commit suicide and he was working the congregation and his "soul mate" to believe it. If only he could of shut me up before I went running and blabbing to everyone I knew cared about me. He studied manipulation and practiced on his "people" like it was a game.

Tanner   March 25th, 2010 4:37 pm ET

What about the now motherless daughter! Baker claims that the daughter is now happier since her mother dead. Have they interviewed the daughter & get the true version?

Kathy OGorman   March 25th, 2010 4:47 pm ET

In the emails that were written by Mrs. Baker, she uses the word "too" and not "to" as in the suicide note.

Kay Scott. Belize Central America   March 25th, 2010 4:58 pm ET

Vanessa Bulls is amazing! She's preening in the limelight, seems slightly regretful that she "didn't do the right thing" and save a human life (Kari's) when she could have. She's acting as though she's performing on a reality show where nothing is 'real'. She and Matt make a great pair!
Too bad she's not charged too!.

lynn   March 25th, 2010 4:59 pm ET

I am wondering if Matt didnt have something to do with the death of Kassidy? She was cancer free and doing well at the time of her death when HE "found" her dead!

MARIE   March 25th, 2010 5:59 pm ET

Kari was a christian and knows that suicide is a sin. Also, she wouldn't take her own life and leave her other children – she loved them as much as the precious little one who died. No woman, especially one who is over weight, would want to be found naked, and if she left a note would have at least signed it. This poor excuse for a man/minister is guilty and it's too bad that his ex-girlfriend isn't being charged also. So sad for the remaining children and Kari's mother, father, etc.

Rita   March 25th, 2010 6:25 pm ET

I agree that the pictures of Kari's body (even in outline form with her underwear) were displayed for much longer than was necessary, including by the television cameras. I shudder to think of how mortifying that was for her parents. It was so disrespectful of Kari. Her husband, however, didn't seem to have any trouble looking at her body.

Michael   March 25th, 2010 6:38 pm ET

And i can't say i agree with what everyone says because everyone is entitled to there own opinion and i respect that, because thats what we all are here for BUT lets open up people yeah Vanessa had an affair with the man but guess what and sorry to say it but its life i couldnt stop it, no one could. Its like this when you feel in love did it feel wonderful, did that person make you feel so amazing that you thought this is the one, but news flash and you know what im talking about, you cannot control who u love and in this case Matt Baker was who she feel in love with. But im a tell everyone and you wanna kno the truth, in this case Its Matt Baker v.s. Vanessa Bull she is the star witness for there whole investigation and the testimony that she gave repeatedly the same thing over and over word for word and like i said that is not a story that has been cohorst meening she was forced to make up something she knows exactly what happen and im sorry with who ever dont like what about to say but the State needed her and if thats was the only way to get the truth its a cruel world but just think about it you think Vanessa like getting on T.V. announcing she had an affair with a 'Minister, also knowing that his wife was murdered, and she is also the church choir leaders daughter, come on people she is a strong woman just listen to wat yall say about her just think of whats going through her parents mind there hurt, so by me watching this case and soaking everything in Vanessa Bull is not doing this for fame because she couldve just kept shut and not said anything and then you people wouldnt be bashing her but just because she come forward and do the right thing no matter how long it takes the truth will be set free

darli   March 25th, 2010 8:08 pm ET

what a waste of human flesh matt baker and vanessa bills are. she claims she made a mistake....she said on the witness stand she made a mistake and is trying to set things right....SHE DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE SHE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF KARI BAKER.

she is able to laugh and be smug when kari's mother and family are right there in the court and she has no consideration for their feelings in that she is so smug about the whole matter.

anyone that can do that has a serious mental problem, and this woman will continue to teach children. what a horrible example. too bad the prosecution didn't have more faith in their ability to prosecute without her help and too bad they didn't see she needed to be locked up with baker. this is some of the worst scum i have seen on the show.

Terry Brono   March 25th, 2010 8:33 pm ET

Matt Baker, Melissa
Bulls, conspiracy, complicity up the gazool
shame on them!! All
the ripples of action &
selfish inaction!! They
deserve each other!!

Terry Bruno   March 25th, 2010 8:51 pm ET

I am so sorry for Keri
the children& her family!
Life comes with no
bookmarks on deviant
behavior, or the suffering that follows :(

Marta   March 25th, 2010 9:12 pm ET

I am just curious, I know that Cassidy the young child died several years before the alleged murder. It struck me as odd when Vanessa testified agains Matt Baker and she recounted the events of a phone conversation with Matt, in which Matt learned that the authoroties were going to exhume Kari's body. He is talking on the phone with Vanessa and driving to the cemetary and saying are they going to mess with Cassidy's grave, then says no, but they are "messing" with Kari's grave, meaning that they are exhuming her. The question I have is, could there be a reason why he would worry about the authorities would exhume Cassidy? While it seem very unlikely, but someone, who, alegedly, kills and can justify it so easily, maybe he is guilty of more than just of his wife's murder?

Mary Anne   March 25th, 2010 9:56 pm ET

As the other commentors regarding Kassidy Baker, I was very disturbed by the comment that Matt Baker went to see if his daughter's grave was disturbed along with Kari's at the time of her exhumation. Was more information ever reported on what actually caused this child's death. Everything I have read and heard makes me really suspicious of this man. I could really see him killing his daughter as well as a way to remove the attention that Kari was probably redirecting to her and taking away from Matt. As a narcissitic sociopath that he appears to be, I could see him easily solving this problem by killing this child.

Mary Anne   March 25th, 2010 10:02 pm ET

Please tell me that an autopsy was done on Kassidy Baker when she died. I am very disturbed as well as other commentors regarding the testimony that Matt Baker visited his daughter's grave to see if it was disturbed at the time of Kari's exhumation. This is extremely suspicious to me. As the narcissistic sociopath that he seems to be, I could easily see him killing this child to redirect the attention that Kari was certainly giving to this recovering child away from her and back to him. This possibility is REALLY disturbingly possible. Is there any information out there regarding this??????

sevan   March 25th, 2010 11:15 pm ET

I have been a listener of CNN from the very beginning–when it was the only cable new channel. I was rather appalled tonight to hear anderson cooper talk about "keeping them honest," but instead of him talking about the facts, he showed only the email from Mr. Obama's organizing america. Why didn't he show a copy of the web page from the GOP rep who shouted baby killer or even john mccann web page about "repeal the bill" before asking for a donation. If you say you're keeping them honest anderson–you need to show the entire truth–not your version of it. Because of your bias, I won't be watching cnn anymore. I'm returning to broadcast news once again!

Sadie in Texas   March 25th, 2010 11:25 pm ET

Vanessa will pay for her actions the rest of her life. She did wrong, and Kari lost her life. Vanessa was very young, going through a divorce, and facing raising her baby on her own. She was raised in the church, taught to revere and respect the minister. I certainly don't condone her actions or her lies. What she did was very wrong. But I do believe that she was frightened for herself and her child. And I do believe that she was quite vulnerable to the controlling, manipulative power of a sociopath in the role of a preacher. At the time, she was a classic victim he could have spotted a mile away, much less right before his eyes at his own church. You know, he didn't have to tell Vanessa anything. He made her complicit purposely, in order to control her after the fact. I am glad she finally did the right thing.

And I, too, believe in my heart that Matt killed Kassidy as well.

Jo Anna   March 25th, 2010 11:51 pm ET

If that is all the defense has Matt Baker should have tried for a deal before this trial even started. I can't believe Matt Baker had the nerve to wear a cross as a tie tack. I really not sure he knows anything about God.

Jo Anna, CA

darli   March 26th, 2010 12:12 am ET

does everyone remember when vanessa testified that matt told her at church one day something like "whoever found her would be lucky" ? wonder if old matt still feels that way and i wonder if any guy will ever say anything like that to her ever ironic! hope someone can get a good laugh out of this because matt and vanessa are really quite pathetic.

Jo Anna   March 26th, 2010 12:39 am ET

I'm not saying Vanessa Bulls is a great person but at the time of kari's death Vanessa was only 23 years old and going through a divorce. Older men do have a way of controlling younger women without the women knowing it.

Svein   March 26th, 2010 4:17 am ET

You can buy a Gun, You can buy a bullet and You can pull the trigger; Ms. Bulls may have bought the bullet, but Mr. Baker pulled the trigger.

Flora Dering   March 26th, 2010 7:03 am ET

Does Matt Baker have any relatives or friends in court who believe in his innocence? I'd love to know something about the background that produced this complete" train wreck" of a human being, who seems to have no redeeming virtues–or maybe he's just a classic sociopath. Please consider having a psychologist explain this to your audience.

Michael   March 26th, 2010 9:07 am ET

Do you think Vannessa is innocent or guilty

cheri   March 26th, 2010 9:19 am ET

i think miss bulls is as guilt as kari's husband , knowing of a crime and not telling anyone is a crime.. atleast thats what i have always been told .. i think miss bulls should get some jail time aswell.. if miss bulls did this 1 time what do you think she will do if there is a next time.. now its called Lack Of TRUST....

Michael   March 26th, 2010 9:20 am ET

Really in mind and in my heart I think she was murdered beause Kari was a religous one with alot of problems with the death of her daughter but even tho a mother is hurt and feels like not living anymore she knew she had children behind and from all the blogs and watchin this case i found out Kari loved her kids and she wouldnt do that its just not her this was planned out and it was murder people really open up there eyes because everytime you look at Matt Baker in its not the look of a christian man he knows he has messed up and it is guilt in his eyes and his lawyer knows it this is an interesting case but also weird because there on trial for murder and sometimes the way things seem is if it was something petty but the truth is comin and I just hope that Matt Baker reap what he sow

Susan Bieneman   March 26th, 2010 9:23 am ET

I think what happened to poor Kari Baker is exactly what Vanessa Bulls attested to on the stand.

Susan B.
Washington, IL

Patricia   March 26th, 2010 9:46 am ET

Kari Baker was murdered definitely by her husband and maybe Venessa Bulls had some involvement. Kari Baker was not depressed and as a mother of three myself even if I did lose a daughter I would never leave my two other daughters. Even if she was depressed, I struggle with depression and my girls make my days better and make them worth living for I would never think of taking my own life and I am a Christian, she did not take her own life. He is a fool if he thinks he is going to get away with this. She would have accepted a divorce but she would have fought for custody of having her girls. She went to an interview that day, and her daughter's birthday was coming up – NO WAY DID KARI BAKER TAKE HER OWN LIFE. I have loved watching this case and the way you follow it and I like that detective he is right on with everything he has said.

Brandon Cox   March 26th, 2010 9:50 am ET

It isn't the pressure of the pulpit that drives men to commit such crimes. The pulpit is a privilege. It's sin. It's a lack of character. It's the presence of evil within us and within the world. Thank God for a Redeemer and Deliverer in Christ.

Susan Fleming   March 26th, 2010 9:54 am ET

Correction Matt Baker played at being a religious man. A true believer KNOWS he cannot fool GOD. Baker broke so many commandments that there is no way he could be called religious. He used his position to gain respect from his community. As far as taking advantage of Ms Bulls she was not an unwilling participant. She knew all the players. If she knew that Mr. Baker had lost a child and felt sympathy for him, then she knew Kari had also lost a child. Where was the sympathy there? If Kari was depressed to the point of suicide then Ms. Bulls surely knew that the possibilty of finding out about the affair would only increase Kair's depression and further the desire for suicide, hence she contributed to Kari's depression. Not that I believe the suicide story. I hope that the community she lives in does what the law enforcement did not do. I hope they shun her and make her realize she's not a victim but a willing participant in this crime!!!!!

Serenity   March 26th, 2010 10:20 am ET

Vanessa Bulls is just as guilty, when you know something you tell.
I can understand how vulnerable she felt in the beginning but after that kiss no matter what she should have told.

Fern McCuish   March 26th, 2010 10:24 am ET

Vanessa Bulls is a self serving, narcissistic woman. In my opinion, she is equally culpable in the murder of Kari. She knew what he was planning and she did nothing, nor did she go to the police. She continued to sleep with him so obviously wasn't afraid of him like she says she was. That's a load of BULL..pardon the pun. I think charges should have been brought against her for accesssory. No doubt about it. I'm sure Vanessa isn't having a great time now, and I'm sure she isn't accepted within her church either. Scary that she is a teacher and a mother. Unfit for sure.

Ruth   March 26th, 2010 10:26 am ET

I think Ms. Bulls knew and planned the murder of Kari along with Matt Baker. I cannot believe that she is not being prosecuted for her part in this. Poor Kari and her kids.

Chuck Greenawalt   March 26th, 2010 10:32 am ET

Done Deal!...Scott Baker = GUILTY...I predict the jury will take less than an hour to bring back the verdict!

mary c   March 26th, 2010 10:32 am ET

In response to Michael comments yesterday, no one is slandering Vanessa Bulls. The facts were seen in Court and her own words prove that this woman lack of moral judgment caused the death of Kari Baker. Youth has nothing to do with moral judgment.
Wrong is wrong, even a small child knows when he or she is doing wrong. Vanessa Bulls will have to deal all of her life knowing that she could have prevented the death of Kari Brown.

Cynthia B. Dougal   March 26th, 2010 10:40 am ET

If you do not broadcast the verdict in Texas v Baker today (Friday, March 26th) you will have lost another viewer. It is really annoying to listen to endless repetition of testimony and other fill. I supposed it is to your financial advantage to reduce production costs by stretching out taped trials - less content and more commercials, but it has become too tedious to watch.
Show the verdict today and save the sentencing, if any, until Monday morning.

bob   March 26th, 2010 10:41 am ET

what haunts me is when Venessa recounted Matt arriving at gravevard and running to see is his daughter had also been exummed. Did Matt end his daughters suffering. What do your experts think. Ibelieve Venessa said she feared for herself saying He had already killed twice.

regina freeman   March 26th, 2010 10:54 am ET

i regina freeman agree with, the most: the ex ant inocceny at all if mat is found quilty she is too:she all to be ashame she wannted that woman place so bad she wanned her dead;she is a liar an cheater an steals an kills;

K Horsman   March 26th, 2010 11:01 am ET

First of all My Sympathy to Kari's Family ...must have been torture listening to how that Monster killed their beloved daughter..Is Matt Baker so full of himself that her believes God will forgive him? Thou Shalt no kill Remember Matt Or did you not learn that in your studies, as for Vanessa NO SYMPATHY HERE.. I believe she could have prevented what happened to Kari.. Scared My Butt.. There is always something someone can do.. She knew exactly what was going to happen and when things began to surface she plays the victim she should have been prosecuted too!!

Linda B   March 26th, 2010 11:03 am ET

Guilty, life without parole. I hate the mistress is getting off scott free. I think she had an active roll in this. How did her fingerprints get on the medicine bottle? She got them for him. I keep looking at Matt Baker and wondering how he could critisize his wife for her wieight. He could excerise too.

Hannah   March 26th, 2010 11:11 am ET

Yes, I believe Vanessa, but what kind of woman would know this, have sex with a married man, in his home and become engaged. Then poof, she is a victim too???

John   March 26th, 2010 11:18 am ET

Vanessa is full of herself. Her only concern is how this incident affected HER, not the victim. This case is a slam dunk. This jackass whimp snuffed his wife so he could "Party" with his low life GF. I loved the part where Bull(s) almost cried over the thought of losing her job & friends. No remorse shown for the victim. She needs some grey bar hotel time. Both of these pigs are disgusting.

LisainVA   March 26th, 2010 11:43 am ET

I have never seen a defendant who NEVER directed his eyes to the jury or to the participants in the galley. He has either looked at his attorneys or kept his eyes on his note pad [probably writing notes to himself that he KNOWS he's in big trouble now since Bulls testified corroborating the time line of events leading to Kari's death and what a LOSER he has become, although he should know this without having to write it down].

In any event, there are way too many coincidences for any one person to even 'think' that all these 'unlucky' occurrences happened to one person during a short time span when a 'suicide/murder' occurred. He will be found GUILTY as even his body language tells the story. Just so he will never get out of prison for the remainder of his life!

Jen markey   March 26th, 2010 12:11 pm ET

I am wondering if Matt Baker will have reason to call for an appeal, keeping in mind the fact that his defense attornies tried to back out of the case before it even started. I can only imagine that knowing the men who are trying to defend you, don't even believe what youre saying, must be a bit unsettling for Matt Baker.

Anne   March 26th, 2010 12:15 pm ET

Vanessa Bulls is as despicable human being as Matt Baker. She's self-absorbed, has disregard for the truth, and was more interested in protecting her own self-image than helping someone else who was in danger – in this case, Kari Baker. Most people with a conscience would have gone to the police the SECOND they heard a lover tell them how they would kill a wife!

What's even worse, she came forward only after she was dumped and Kari was dead. Even then, not only did some omit some information, but also outright LIED to authorities in other aspects.

Don't get me started on the "What would I have gotten out of this? I could lose MY job, and people are looking at ME bad." Is she kidding me? Kari is dead, and this woman is only interested in how people are looking at her and HER job? Two little girls lost their mother!

She should have been charged as an accessory.

amy / south dakota   March 26th, 2010 12:28 pm ET

I'm wondering if Vanessa has made any attempt to apollogize to Kari's family? Were they receptive? They have to atleast be thankful she finally is being honest or they wouldn't have a convincing case.

Marilyne   March 26th, 2010 12:32 pm ET

Matt really needed to get other attorneys. I think they did more damage to than good. I beleive that Matt is guilty, but I also think that Vanessa had something to do with the whole thing, because she was bitter. Maybe Matt was going to call it quits with her. She is every bit as guilty as Matt. Saying he said she would be forgiven maybe, but you need to change your ways for forgiveness, not continue to lie. She wanted him and she got what she deserves. I'm am more than discussed with her, she is stuck on herself.

Susanne Gibbons   March 26th, 2010 12:33 pm ET

I think Kari met the same fate as Julie Jenson.

amy floyd   March 26th, 2010 12:33 pm ET

i beleave he gave her the pills and had her to beleave they were sex pills..remember their plans for that night. he is a sick man.

Cynthia   March 26th, 2010 12:36 pm ET

I feel like Vanessa Bulls and Matt Baker plotted to kill Kari. I just wonder if Matt Baker knew he was going down for this and helped save Vanessa from being prosecuted.

Judith Serpente   March 26th, 2010 12:37 pm ET

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. This "preacher"
killed his wife and she knew it was coming. It's these type of people representing themselves as teachers of God's message that make it so difficult for us to even think they could be guilty of such acts. Well, Kari knew and I hope the jury paid attention to what she was trying to tell us.

Virginia Beach, VA.

Michele   March 26th, 2010 12:40 pm ET

I think Vanessa should be sued in civil court by the victims family! She could have saved this Kari! As a mother, she should have at least thought of the children losing their mom!

Nicholson   March 26th, 2010 12:42 pm ET

From what they have shown, the only way I see he DIDN'T do this is if , because it's clear she was aware of what he was planning and she beat him to the punch.

James Hattabaugh   March 26th, 2010 12:44 pm ET

What Happened to Kari Baker ?

I was always taught that the state had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I am stumped how without any medical examiner at any level best determination is that the death is indetermined how Mr. Baker could ever be brought to trial.

Reasonable doubt ? What happened to it ? I see over and over again the jury coming to a verdict seemingly based on what it looks like, rather than what it is. Reasonable doubt, such as in this case, no determination of death seems to be being on the back burner rather than the front burner where it belongs.

Who knows, oerhaps the wife killed herself and framed her adultress husband.

Douglas P. Smith   March 26th, 2010 1:08 pm ET

I wonder why the only time I heard true panic in Matt's voice was when he was on the phone with Vanessa at Kari's grave site to see if it was exumed. He immediantly paniced and said "I have to check Cassidy's grave". Why would he think they would exume Cassidy's grave?

C portlock   March 26th, 2010 1:33 pm ET

Matt is guilty. From Kari's emails there is no indication that she was depressed or tired and wanting to "sleep for a while". And the 911 tape, my goodness, I am a 911 dispatcher and have NEVER heard anyone who has found a loved one dead sound so calm cool and collected. Give him life, Kari's is gone and those cute little girls lives are forever altered.

joseph   March 26th, 2010 1:34 pm ET

NO question this guy killed his wife. He should get life. atleast.

Randy Balthazar   March 26th, 2010 1:36 pm ET

Prechers are human, Matt Bakers committed one of human natures ultimate crimes, Murder...He is quilty as charged and should spend the rest of his life in prison.

LisainVA   March 26th, 2010 1:39 pm ET

Baker should absolutely be found GUILTY because the prosecution put on a case that leaves no room for doubt despite it being circumstantial. Furthermore, Baker has sat through the trial of his very life as though he has felt he would be exonerated just because he is a minister. He has NEVER even glanced at the jury, and as much as Vanessa Bulls is seen as despicable for her actions, at least she looked directly at the jury to make her point about Matt Baker being a manipulative liar. Furthermore, Matt Baker's defense apparently had very weak legs to stand on as their client was unable to provide any viable or concrete information that would actually help in his defense.

Emerald Jones   March 26th, 2010 1:41 pm ET

This man needs to be locked up for life! I don't know why he can't get the death penalty.

christa   March 26th, 2010 1:47 pm ET

although I do agree with eveyone comments about Vanessa . she seems to have a very selfish personality, but i do belevie she was a victim as well as the wife and possibly te daughter

Dana   March 26th, 2010 1:54 pm ET

I think the evidence spoke for itself he was guilty.

Pepper Adams   March 26th, 2010 1:59 pm ET

V. Bulls probably has a narcissistic personality disorder. She actually got angry because the newspaper reported that Matt Baker was making a purchase for his daughters versus her. She needs to be imprisoned!

Kimm Benson   March 26th, 2010 2:13 pm ET

Are you freaking kidding me? This was a no brainer!!! He wasn't out of breath from moving his wife or giving her cpr... try it for 2 minutes and see the results.. move 190 lbs and do cpr and see if you are out of breath.....
Vanessa Bulls is a disgrace to women!! She should be prosecuted as an acesssory to something.. this women could of saved kari bakers life!! All she would of had to do was make one phone call and not even give her name.. come on! In this day and time you can sue for being burnt by HOT coffee is that more important than a life...
She even had the audacity to take kari's phone and use it.. she is no better than matt!
I am so disgusted at this woman!! He is the scum but she is lower than scum because if she had a heart, like she claims, then she would of stopped it!! He is sick and should be put to deathj!! she should rott in prison !!

Nikki in California   March 26th, 2010 3:08 pm ET

Of course I have no doubt that this weirdo slime-ball is guilty. I wouldn't want to be in the same room with him. However, I really have to comment about the "Ambien being placed in the online shopping cart" business.

I hardly ever leave the house and I do almost ALL of my shopping on the internet (even groceries), but putting something in the cart really didn't prove anything. Often when I am checking prices online, the only way to get shipping costs is to go through the checkout process all the way up to the "confirming the purchase" page.

Sometimes, if I don't want to have to search a certain website again for a product, if they have no "wish list" or "shopping list" I will go ahead and place it in the "cart" to keep track of it. That being said, I think that even WITHOUT any of the online shopping information, it was clear as glass that he murdered his wife.

Yes, Virginia - there really ARE very evil and disgusting people walking among us. But not in my circle! Yeah, right. ;-)

Judy   March 26th, 2010 5:06 pm ET

I believe that Vanessa Bull was actually in on the act of killing Mark Baker's wife. I think that this is the missing truth that has come out in this case. I believe this is why Baker looks resigned. He spared his "lover". Vanessa is obviously an evil person. It exudes out of her skin.
Mark, like his wife, was in a vulnerable position because of the tragedy in their life. He fell easily to the likes of Vanessa. Not to excuse him but he found his soul mate in Vanessa who I believe is just as guilty as he is. I think that Mark agreed to save her. Everyone senses this but can't put their finger on it. Vanessa is guilty.

Diane Sower   March 26th, 2010 6:22 pm ET

vanessa could have been charged with conspiracy, so that's why they gave her immunity for her testimony. She knew she was going down, and had to save her own neck. She's every bit as dangerous as he is, and if he gets off, which he won't, he'll keep having numerous affairs.

MARIE   March 26th, 2010 7:35 pm ET

The only reason the "girlfriend" gave testimony was she was offered a "deal " to testify . She did NOT come forward to just tell the truth – if she had not, she would have been charged also. She is just as guilty as Matt, and I hope it haunts her the rest of her life.

tony gentile   March 27th, 2010 4:11 pm ET

Can't Vanessa Bulls be charged with complicity to murder. She knew everything that was going to happen and did nothing to stop it. It sounds like she changed her part and made false testimony to avoid prosecution.

unknown   March 28th, 2010 11:11 pm ET

anyone who blame Vanessa Bulls for anything, does not know the power sociopaths have on people. it is hard to detect them because they portray themselves just the opposite of what they really are. They disguise themselves, always blame others, and very skillful on praying on people. Vanessa Bulls was 23 when she met this sociopath, that forever changed her life. just because she is still alive does not make her culpable in this murder. to blame her with anything will make other victims like her reluctant to come forward and tell the truth.

george   March 29th, 2010 1:08 pm ET

All this could have been avoided had the JP ordered an autopsy! It would have avoided a lot of grief for his children, gotten him behind bars more quickly. Vanessa Bulls is a co-conspirator. She got immunity, but this will follow her forever. I wonder if her ex if going to get the child? kassidy should be exhumed-then he could be put away forever as he should.

deitra jackson   March 29th, 2010 1:25 pm ET

i think that vanessa bull is lying and why is she just know coming out

Nancy Rush   March 29th, 2010 4:18 pm ET

I have watched Court TV/TruTV for as many years as it has been aired and I love it! Keep up the good work.

Matt Baker should have gotten a death sentence for his evil deeds in this case. I hope Kassidy will be exhumed and an autopsy done on her. I think her evil father smothered her to death like he did her mother. He probably did it ,in case her cancer came back and it would take some of his ill-gotten church funds to pay for the costs of her treatment in the future, and take money away that he would rather lavish on his trashy lovers. Kassidy's death should definitely be investigated!

Matt Baker is nothing but evil vermin that should be handed over to the victim's family to administer their own type of justice to, and save the taxpayers the burden of supporting the sorry- excuse- of- a- human- being, for many years to come.

Elke M. Farley   March 29th, 2010 7:43 pm ET

FOR some years I have gradully lost my respect for our jury System. Today I got my respect back. Sadly no sentence imposed on him will come close to justice for Kari. EMF

Lisa   March 29th, 2010 8:24 pm ET

The courts need to start holding people accountable in these kinds of cases. If a person knows or is told a murder is going to be committed they have a legal and moral responsibility to tell the authorities. If it is revealed that someone knew they should not get off scot-free, there must be some penalty, some culpability, some justice. -Sweets

wendy caddy   March 30th, 2010 1:21 pm ET

I think they should have charged ms. bulls as well. She knew what Matt Baker had planned and never said anything so i feel she should also be held responsible. This little innocent act has NO ONE fooled.

A. Smith, Oregon   March 30th, 2010 5:50 pm ET

Just when you thought the Pope couldn't slink any lower!

In court documents this Tuesday, the Pope's attorneys are filing a defense in their callous attempt to prevent Pope Ratz from being questioned under oath what he knew about serial pedophile clerics who raped and sodomized hundreds of children in the care of the church.

Pope Ratz's defense team has issued three elements of defense in a ongoing child rape case in Kentucky in Pope Ratz's attempts to avoid being questioned under oath about what he knew and what he did about serial child pedophiles in the Vatican and in parishes around the world.

1) Claiming Pope Ratz is immune from criminal charges as head of state, although that certainly didn't protect Manual Noriega former president of Panama on far lesser crimes.

2) The ridiculous claim that Pope Ratz is not the boss of those serial pedophile clerics and clerics of the church are not employees of the Vatican. This is apparently a clear attempt to dodge monetary settlements against Pope Ratz and the Vatican itself.

3) A claim attempting to dispute that a 1962 Vatican document obtained by a Oregon attorney representing hundreds of children raped in Oregon by Vatican clergy which appears to clearly describe the direct role of the Vatican knowing and moving pedophiles to other unsuspecting parishes where the pedophiles committed multiple new cases of rape, sodomy and sexual abuse on new child victims.

Three men claiming they were abused by priests brought the suit against the Holy See in 2004, accusing Rome of negligence in failing to alert police or the public about priests who molested children in Kentucky.

The preview of the legal defense, provided to the AP by a person familiar with the case, was submitted last month in the U.S. District Court in Louisville. Vatican officials declined to comment.

The case is significant because it's the first among a handful of cases targeting Rome in the United States to reach the stage of determining whether the victims actually have a claim against the Vatican itself.

Previous cases attempting to implicate the Vatican have failed or are pending at more preliminary stages.

In the Kentucky suit, the men argued that U.S. diocesan bishops were employees of the Holy See, and that Rome was therefore responsible for their alleged wrongdoing in failing to report abuse.

They charged that a 1962 Vatican document mandated that bishops not report sex abuse cases to police. The Vatican has argued that there is nothing in the document that precluded bishops from reporting pedophiles to police.

LisainVA   March 31st, 2010 4:42 pm ET

In response to A. Smith:

"Vatican lawyers will argue in negligence cases brought by abuse victims that the pope has immunity as a head of state and that bishops who allowed an abuse culture, endlessly recirculating like dirty fountain water, were not Vatican employees." NYTimes by Maureen Dowd

I want to know who wrote the law stating that a 'Pope is immune from being 'judged' by any man for any crime'? Was it the hierarchy in the church who dispense canon law? Did a previous Pope write it? Did it come from a court in Italy? Don't tell me that just because he is considered 'head of state' that provides automatic immunity from all international/national laws'. As you stated, it didn't do anything to help Noriega and it did nothing to help Saddam Hussein, so why is the Pope exempt.

From all I've read about this case, it is apparent that Pope Rottweiler absolutely allowed the pedophile, Murphy from Wisconsin, to continue abusing children until he died. He also knew about these same crimes in Germany. I wish the men from KY who bought suit against him have the best of luck and attorney representation, as the Pope is a 'mere mortal', not Jesus Christ. The laws governing the Catholic church are specified to favor those of authority in Rome, and too bad for the abused children. From experience, I know what sexual abuse of a child does to that child and it takes many years to work through it.

Charlie   May 10th, 2010 12:28 pm ET

Ms. Bulls was very young and was being preyed upon by the pastor who was supposed to help her in her time of need.
The fact that she is very attractive should not change anything. Hindsight is always 20/20 as to "She could have..."

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