April 18, 2009

Defense spars with victim's family at trial

Posted: 09:22 PM ET

GREELEY, Colorado–Angie Zapata’s mother, sisters and friends took on the defense on the second day of the trial of the man accused of killing her last July. Zapata, a transgender female, was bludgeoned to death in her home in Greeley, Colorado, allegedly because she was biologically a male living as a female.

The accused, six-time convicted felon Allen Andrade, isn’t denying he’s the killer. He says that it wasn’t a premeditated murder as charged by the state; rather that Zapata’s deceit threw him into an uncontrollable rage. If convicted of a lesser degree of murder, he could avoid life without parole.

On the second day of the trial, seven family members and friends of Zapata testified. Of those seven, five of them, Zapata’s mother, two sisters and two friends, consistently embraced Zapata’s transgender status.

All day, the defense referred to Zapata by her birth name, Justin, and used the male pronoun “he.” In response to questions that invoked these terms, the witnesses would calmly but assertively use Angie and “she.” For example, one exchange was: “Both purses belonged to Justin?” “Yes, to Angie.” Another: “You received a text from Justin while he was in court?” “From my sister while she was in court, yes.”

The verbal sparring between defense attorneys and still-grieving family and friends highlighted the issue in the case. The defense says that Andrade’s rage when he learned that the striking woman he was with was biologically a male should mitigate his level of criminal responsibility. The prosecution is building a circumstantial case to the contrary. They say that Andrade knew for some time before the murder—at least a day and a half—that Zapata was a transgender female.

In addition to family and friends who described their last communications with Zapata and finding her lifeless body, jurors heard from a crime scene investigator and a homicide detective. They also saw a video of the scene and numerous photos and other items now in evidence.

I was in court Friday afternoon, sitting directly behind Andrade, when a witness identified Zapata from a photo taken not long before her death. When the prosecutor displayed the photo it was immediately transmitted to monitors around the courtroom—in the jury box, at the defense table and on a large monitor positioned between judge and witness. As the photo popped up on the monitor in front of Andrade, he closed his eyes and kept them closed for some time. Beyond that, he’s been pretty stoic throughout for the past two days.

Stay tuned to In Session's coverage of this case as it resumes Monday at 9 a.m.

–Beth Karas, In Session correspondent

Filed under: Uncategorized

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Bill Hunt   April 19th, 2009 12:00 am ET

Yes, it was (and will continue to be) a "Battle of the Personal Pronouns" which to me is little more then schoolyard antics.

mel horvitz   April 19th, 2009 12:56 am ET

hi beth

are you saying the oral sex was performed after he learned that she was a transgender?

Zoe Brain   April 19th, 2009 6:12 am ET

If the comments on the previous post are anything to go by, there'll be a hung jury, just as there was in the Gwen Araujo case.

The problem is that while most see this as murder, some see it as excusable, and a minority see it as praiseworthy.

Of the 234 comments that made it through moderation, one called for the victim to be charged posthumously, one called for the victim's family to pay compensation to the killer, 15 called for the killer to be found not guilty on all charges (including the thefts) because the victim was transsexual, and by my count, 43 called for a verdict of involuntary manslaughter, justifiable homicide, or a lesser charge, simply because the victim was transsexual.

2 said that they would have done the same thing as the killer.

All I can do is hope that the opinions of CNN's viewers are not reflective of those on the jury.

N. Light   April 19th, 2009 1:14 pm ET

And Her family is right. She is female. And there's no crime in Her living that way. It's Her right to live Her life. Unless someone is transgendered, they can't possibly understand how it feels. The only deception is living as the wrong gender for the beginning of your life.

Jason   April 19th, 2009 2:23 pm ET

This was a reaction to a disgusting deceit bordering by abomination, arousing a negative passion with almost every normal person.

Should be a murder in the second degree.

Tim   April 19th, 2009 8:37 pm ET

I am a gay man and I hope that the defendant is not convicted of murder. You cannot deceive people like this and then expect them not to be pissed.

Von   April 20th, 2009 8:12 am ET

Obviously, I don't condone what happened here. My deepest sympathies go out to the family. Still yet, he was Justin. If my child said he was black when in reality he is white, would that make him black? No, it woulsn't. An apple is an apple and an orange is an orange. Regardless, the behaviour of his attacker can not be tolerated.

BobInTexas   April 20th, 2009 8:24 am ET

Regardless of preference, and even beyond having a male (XY) chromosomal makeup, Justin still had fuctional male genetalia. He was, therefore, a man at the time of his death. Gender disphoria may have been a psychological affliction he suffered, but until his castration was completed, he remained male by any test that can be given – appearance, genetics, reproductive and sexual function – all male. That he dressed up as female is merely an affectation addressing his gender preference.

Autumn   April 20th, 2009 8:28 am ET

I'm not sure I am understanding this correctly. Did they say six-time convicted fellon? I thought that there was a "rule" inplace, that rule being three strikes you're out? How could he avoid life w/o parole when he has proven that he is a threat to other citizens around him?

Would someone be willing to explain the "three stikes" and what qualifies as a strike? I'm not sure I fully understand.

maggie   April 20th, 2009 8:36 am ET

It seems to me that the defense is claiming that because Andrade became angry murder is acceptable...does this mean that it is ok to killthe mechanic that tries to rip me off and made me angry?

Jessica K   April 20th, 2009 8:42 am ET

Whether she told him at first or not this jerk deserves the death penalty. He knew for a day and a half.

Linda   April 20th, 2009 8:42 am ET

What difference does your name or the status of your genitals have to do with your murder? Anyway you color this picture, a human being lost their life at the hands of another. Perhaps, someone needs to recognize that this victim was a loved individual who should not have died just because someone lost their temper and is now saying it was not his fault because the victim was a bit different. That's no excuse to harm someone else. Diversity is God made and we are all different in some way.

Will Sheldon   April 20th, 2009 9:03 am ET

If I meet a woman and that turned out to be a man, that person will be in grave physical danger from me. Is a person homophobic because they don't want to be gay or engage in homosexual acts. If you are not fully woman then let the guy know or you might get hurt. It is not a game.

betsy,tx   April 20th, 2009 9:09 am ET

The defense needs to refer to "Angie as a she instead of he it might back fire on them." I would like to know the jury pool?

Same Old White House   April 20th, 2009 9:18 am ET

Legally this person was still Justin. Good for the defense.

Gary   April 20th, 2009 9:31 am ET

I can't view this as a hate crime, it is tragic. Anyone who is trans gender has the responsibility to be up front.

Lorri Smith   April 20th, 2009 9:36 am ET

This guy is just pissed and ashamed that he was aroused by a man! I know quite a few transgender individual and there is no way he didn't know after getting so close.

Jessica   April 20th, 2009 9:42 am ET

While I understand how difficult this whole trial is, I feel that the real question is definitely when the defendant found out that SHE was a HE. I feel that it is appropriate for a transgender person to tell other people IMMEDIATELY if they are trying to start a sexual relationship with them. It is obviously no excuse for murder, but I strongly feel that a transgender person deceiving someone purposely is horrible and can obviously have terrible repercussions.

Jen Aldridge   April 20th, 2009 9:45 am ET

As far as revealing yourself if you are a transgender; i feel that if you are going to start a relationship with someone, you should definitely reveal your true identity immediately before proceeding with the relationship. If you are proud of who you are, they let the world know. Why hide it and risk possibly your life (like with Angie). It would almost seem as if you are embarrassed about who and what you are if you try to hide it. I dont hold prejudice with anyone, not matter what our differences are, but i realize that alot of people do. I think it is best to be honest up front and possibly lose the relationship, than to hide it and cause even more pain and destruction.

Susan   April 20th, 2009 9:46 am ET

I think the defense is making a big mistake by refering to the victim as Justin and he. I feel it shows disrespect for Angie and for her family and I don't think it will set well with the jury.

Crystal Charette   April 20th, 2009 9:46 am ET

As if!
I think that this man that murdered Miss Zapata really needs to get a push back into reality. There are thousands of people that think they are male but born as a female, and males that are born males but think they are females. Everyone is different and I believe that Miss Zapata had the same rights as everyone else. Just because the man "Lost control" since he was shocked is an awful excuse. People should feel free to do what they please. It's their choice if they want others to know if they're female or male. But it's also up to others that see or hear to understand it's how that person wants to live.

kim collier   April 20th, 2009 9:47 am ET

what if angie had been hemaphrodite? my condolences go out to the zapata famly no one deserves to\be murdered becuse of their identitiy and or sexual preference as they so ignorantly call it i am a gay woman if i had a choice i certainly would not have chosen to be gay there are too many psychos out there like the defendant he's guilty ! perhaps this will set a presadent. god bless the zapata sisters and family xo

Outraged   April 20th, 2009 9:49 am ET

I admire the family for respectfully pointing out what the defense attorney is doing. By respectfully correcting the prosecutor, they are showing tremendous dignity. Right on....

As for the defense, they are playing a dangerous game by openly arguing with the family...but then again, the argument they are making is thin, at best..

I mean, honestly–since when is ANY killing justified? So Allen Alandra was enraged, upset, deceived–so what? He had many options that were legal–walking away, writing an angry letter, going to the gym, yelling, and so on.....

But murder? Really?

That is your argument, that murder was an appropriate response???

What a slippery slope for other cases of domestic violence, then......

Jake   April 20th, 2009 9:51 am ET

In no way am I in support of Mr. Andrade's act of murder but I am in support of Zapata coming clean and revealing the true nature of his identity. The murder cannot be condoned but the deception could have been so severe that Mr. Andrade lost control. Transgendered people do have the right to exist, but don't have the right to mislead people with their false identity. If Mr. Andrade in my opinion would have wanted to be with a man, he would have frequented alternative lifestyle avenues. In all actuality there are only two people who really know the truth as to whether or not Zapata revealed his true identity and unfortunately one of them is dead.

mocha   April 20th, 2009 9:54 am ET

I am a transgendered woman who has have had my change but I still tell any man before being sexually involved'but I feel he knew he just wanted to rob and take advantage of her they spent to much time together

amanda   April 20th, 2009 10:05 am ET

I think Angie should have told the guy she was a transgender upon meeting him.

dk   April 20th, 2009 10:09 am ET

I am not sure this was a hate crime? I don't agree with murder of anyone but we have people who have no respect for life that is a fact!!! I am not sure he did it because angie was transgender? people do horrible things to spouses and friends and family for outrageouse reasons on their part but it doesn't mean he did it only because of the sexuality issue alone? I have many gay friends and relatives and I hope that just because sexuality is a factor that it is not what is used just because it can be. Angie didn't deserve this as no one does but not all people are rational and he doesn't seem to be close to someone who I would even feel safe being around.

Jose   April 20th, 2009 10:15 am ET

The biology gender should be relieved before anything should happen. Our society has learn to accept many types of sexual behaviors. Therefore, everyone should be responsible for forming the truth. As plastic surgey is becoming so advance that is it almost impossible to determind person's sexual gender. One must put themselves in the person shoes to understand the anger. It is wrong to murder, but that Angie put herself at risk when she didn't tell him. If Mr. Andrade, knew before dating that Angie that would be a totally different story.

Lee   April 20th, 2009 10:20 am ET

Oh what a Tangled Web We weave..... I think its wrong that the News Folks keep calling this MALE a she! He has the male body with makeup that does not make him a SHE!!! I do not condone what this either if these 2 MEN did...

donnie brasco   April 20th, 2009 10:29 am ET

it is absurd to refer to a man as "she" in a legal proceding simply because HE wore a dress. Just stupid.

sonia fuller   April 20th, 2009 10:29 am ET

my comment regarding the question as to when a transgender person should reveal her/his identity to someone they are or will become involve. I believe that question should be addressed to the transgender people, not necessary to trait people. However If it was me I would have reveal it at the onset of the conversation, otherwise Angie willfully deceive the defendant. I do not say that it gave the defendat reason for murdering Angie. But we as a society should take responsibility to tell the truth if indeed we want others to accept us as we are or think what we are. I also do not believe the defendat pre-meditated the murder; it was a crime of passion. He should pay for his crime weather it was a transgender or non transgender it makes no difference.

Gilemena Spencer   April 20th, 2009 10:30 am ET

How horrific that a murderer may be convicted on a lesser charge because his victim was transgendered.

How horrific that a six-time convicted felon was free to commit crimes.

georgia   April 20th, 2009 10:35 am ET

It was a matter how he dressed up, he was a HE!!

khloe   April 20th, 2009 10:37 am ET

I think the defense should reffer to her Name as Angie,and not Justin.In any case that isnt going to change the fact that his client is evil for killing some one because of their gender or for what ever they wish to be or call.I think any one who kill for such is because they are insecure about their own gender and thats the bottom line.Why dislike or hate some one for their race,belief,gender etc?.

Kevin   April 20th, 2009 10:40 am ET

I can never understand violent murder. How can it not be life without parole?
It shouldnt matter what gender the victim was or even that the victim was a transgender. To bad he cant face the prospect of a death sentence.

JJ   April 20th, 2009 10:46 am ET

This guy absolutely knew about Angie. His previous 6 felony convictions show he has some inability to function by society's laws. And, in the previous article, it says that Zapata picked up Andrade and took him to her apartment. I just can't believe that anything in Angie's bathroom or closet wouldn't have tipped him off to the fact that she was born a male. I believe the last article mentioned that he was pre-operation and had been living as a woman for only 3 years. He may have been taking several hormones. After spending a weekend with Angie, wouldn't he notice a routine of taking pills? I just can't buy that he had no idea until just before he killed her.

Tonnie   April 20th, 2009 10:53 am ET

As always, top-notch reporting from Beth Karas.
It's clear to see that this defendent thinks he's going to get off on the "I was so shocked I acted out of intense disbelief/rage" bit. But it also sounds like they're going to be able to prove he knew about the victim's gender in plenty of time to contemplate his actions. He decided she should die for her lifestyle, so he took it upon himself to be God and took a loved one away from a family who loved their child unconditionally.
They did absolutely nothing wrong, yet will suffer throughout their lives for his crime.
I hope (and believe) this guy will be found guilty and sentenced to the maximum. In so many cases, hate knows no boundaries. Thankfully, where he's going to live out his natural life, there is no shortage of boundaries - or hate. Hello, Karma, my old friend.

Rachel   April 20th, 2009 10:54 am ET

Allen Andrade is a homophobe; it was an offense to his masculinity to learn that he was incredibly turned on and attracted to a transgendered person. He murdered her in cold blood, with little remorse, and he would do it again given the chance. Sure, rage was a factor: he was angry that his "gaydar" didn't alert him to the fact that the woman he was so turned on by was once a man.

Lock him up and toss the key and lets forget about this loser allen andrade.

ROBERT   April 20th, 2009 10:56 am ET

This is insane. I do not condone the murder of anyone, but to say that this was not a shock to the guy when he found out that the "woman" he was with was not a woman should not be considered is insane. Are we so liberal and apparently ignorant to believe that if a man...yes he was still a man no matter what he wore or dressed up as, can lie and say he is a woman and it be OK in the eyes of the public? I am not saying that the defendant should go free, but the fact that Justin lied and deceived should carry some weight.

I know this is not going to be a popular thought amongst the left leaning ppl that read this, but the truth is the truth.

Jannette   April 20th, 2009 10:56 am ET

This is so sad this young man wanted to be accepected as a woman so bad and this man killed her . The man had to know that she was still a man when he touched her. I can't beleave that he did not know this. I feel sorry for both family's they have both lost a child now.

debra   April 20th, 2009 10:59 am ET

Lisa bloom asks, Did the defendent reveal his criminal background, This is such a foolish and prejudiced statement. Were the men having a criminal relationship or a sexual one, despite what you believe, zapata SHOULD have been honest from the go. I find this defendant appalling, however, I hope if Bloom is a lawyer, she will continue on tv and stay out of courtrooms and also, be careful how MUCH you hate or become what you hate. Bloom is making me sympathic to the defendant and my first impression was contempt for what he had done.

Laurence Bush   April 20th, 2009 10:59 am ET

I realy feel that Andrade should spend the rest of his life behind bars. you dont have a relationship with some one and then kill them just because they are different. She was a beautiful woman and should have been treated as such. Women of any nature should be treated as the same as anybody, it dosent matter if she was transgendered, she is who he wanted to meet. When things didnt go his way he took the worst way out. He should go to jail for life. I personally love women of this Male to Female. they have more charecter then some people I know and live life to the fullest.
Thank you

note   April 20th, 2009 11:02 am ET

The link on the Crimes page that sent me here was "Sidebar: Witnesses: She was 'Angie,' not Justin"
Which I think is kind of disrespectful.
We know, colloquially, the the quote marks can note sarcasm, or even an untruth. (So and so wants to be called "this" so we do, even though we don't really agree.)
As a title, it is appropriate to put the marks around "Angie," but then they should also be around "Justin."

Teresa, OH   April 20th, 2009 11:02 am ET

I dont think a day and a half is "some time" to know someone is transgendered. There have been other cases like this. When males display themselves as females and CHOOSE to engage in relationships/ emotions with men WITHOUT revealing their gender... I am sure it festers within.

I dont think this was premeditated at all. I think the more he thought about it, the more he felt betrayed and wanted answers... unfortunately, the whole thing ended in JUSTINS death. If he had a penis, he is a MALE. Clothes and makeup dont change your biological being.

To be honest: I think there should be a law against males or females who are transgendered and engage in relationships of the heart without their PARTNERS/ DATEE's knowledge. They should advertise it up front and the ones who it doesnt matter to will come forward. Some people simply cant get passed transgendered ones.

Aydrian   April 20th, 2009 11:02 am ET

Of course Andrade knew of Angie's transgender identity. The defense has done a great job in proving this. CNN should focus more on that. Additionally, it is evident Andrade wanted Angie killed for no other reason but that she was transgender, so the hate crime charge is a perfect fit. He has said so ever since his arrest. Some time after the first beating Andrade returned to Angie's nearly lifeless body, discovering she wasn't dead after the first beating, and continued to relentlessly beat her until he was sure she was no longer alive. The prosecution in Greeley continues to do a wonderful job to ensure this monster never sees freedom ever again.

Disgusted   April 20th, 2009 11:03 am ET

Both of them were wrong in this case. A HE is a HE – you can call yourself a she all day but when the clothes come off the truth is revealed. Being "transgender" should have been the first thing discussed before it went into the bedroom! By far I am not saying Zapata deserved to be murdered over this but it was not fair of him to trick someone into thinking he's the opposite sex – I could see how a homophobic could react in rage. Either way someone with such intense rage should definitely NEVER be allowed to walk the streets again.

Amanda   April 20th, 2009 11:11 am ET

Thanks for highlighting this case!!

John   April 20th, 2009 11:14 am ET

I don't know why society goes along with this form of biological fraud. Gender goes down to DNA level; fiddling with the plumbing doesn't change it.

LibertyQueen   April 20th, 2009 11:23 am ET

Angie Zapata is a woman. You fellas who claim uncontrollable rage when confronted with your own homosexuality are pathetic. Allen Andrade is a homosexual who murdered Angie Zapata and for murdering HER, Andrade should get life without the possibility of parole. Andrade can live out his homosexual fantasies in prison.

Jim   April 20th, 2009 11:23 am ET

The defense has taken the despicable stance that somehow Zapata's murder was justified because she was biological male who dared live as a female. It shows a gross ignorance of what it's like to be transgendered.

Jon   April 20th, 2009 11:26 am ET

If i prefer to be called thin rather than fat, it doesn't change the fact that im fat. Even if i put on a girdle to have the appearance of being thinner. It once again does not change the fact that i am fat. "Angie" Was a man no matter what HE wanted to be called. That in no way justifies him being killed, but you cant expect someone not to react when you attempt to hook up with someone who is not gay.

Bill   April 20th, 2009 11:32 am ET

Wake up people, you are what you were born, no matter what changes you make to your body. I feel bad for any crime victims but lets face it, there seems to be more sympathy and outrage when it happens to a person like Justin, if he was living as a male then this would not be receiving any attention!

Mona   April 20th, 2009 11:40 am ET

I hope they find him guilty on all the charges!! Angie was a beautiful young woman!! May she rest in peace and may justice be served!!

Russ   April 20th, 2009 11:47 am ET

Justin was born with a Y chromosome. He is a male. You can dress up and call yourself anything you want to, but you are still a male. I could have myself surgecially altered to look like the Easter Bunny, but am I the Easter Bunny? I can understand Allen Andrade's rage. This male lied and deceived him. Who is really the victim here!

Rusty Shackleford   April 20th, 2009 11:58 am ET

He is clearly guilty and should be put away forever. However, he/she did defraud him. you should always be honest with your partner. Clearly he/she was not.

Kate   April 20th, 2009 12:07 pm ET

Gender is not just about the parts, it's about the heart, the spirit, and the mind. Angie Zapata was, from that perspective, all woman. Do not disgrace her life with male pronouns or false justifications for brutality. I understand that the defense has an obligation to present on behalf of their client, it's just unfortunate that they're doing so at the expense of a grieving family and the deceased herself, Angie.

Davey   April 20th, 2009 12:13 pm ET

I've been watching what parts you show of this trial for the past few days, and I see it as a major waste of time.

I don't pretend to be an attorney, but it seems to me that hardly any of the testimony or questions asked pertain to the issue at hand.

Did the defendant know in advance that he was gonna kill somebody?

That really is the issue with this case, isn't it?

Julie   April 20th, 2009 12:17 pm ET

The fact that the family is standing their ground and continuing their support of their loved one even in the face of such pigheaded insensitivity is really, really admirable.

Jennifer Frasch   April 20th, 2009 12:21 pm ET

I am a post-operative transgendered woman. I do not carry a neon sigh above my head that proclaims my past. As a rule, I will only tell a person that my former birth certificate 'identified' me as a male before entering into a relationship. Until that time, it remains my life and my choice.

Sebaschen Shaw   April 20th, 2009 12:22 pm ET

i feel the offender should not be held reponsible for his action all because angie is really justin. He was born a male. It is actually a case of deception, any normal and sane person would of reacted the same way. I wish i was appointed jury duty to this case. I feel this not a hate crime and angie's family knew she had a sex change because at her age 16 she would have had to have parental permission to proceed such surgical procedure, and they allowed her continue to perform sexual acts with out telling who knows how many men of his real gender. THis IS A CASE OF DECEPTION.

Elizabeth   April 20th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

Ms. Zapata is being victimized all over again while the defense calls her a he, and Justin, and him. How dare they be so disrespectful to the deceased! Can the Judge not do something about this?!

Also, I have never seen a court room as a whole drink so much water. They must need a lot of potty breaks.

Bess   April 20th, 2009 12:31 pm ET

Regardless of how you feel about the transgender issue, this young person was violently murdered by a career criminal. Their last minutes here on Earth were moments of fear and pain. No human being deserves that. No human being deserves to be murdered.

Justice should be served.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the victim's family.

Val   April 20th, 2009 12:44 pm ET

There is no excuse for his rage in murder – and should be punished accordingly. Nevertheless, there is no excuse for "Angie" not identifying herself as a male immediately... both were wrong.

klm   April 20th, 2009 12:48 pm ET

It's outrageous that anybody thinks that "she mad me really mad!" could be some kind of defense. It would never be considered for any other situation. Imagine, "Then I found out she was __________" (fill in Jewish, African-American, left-handed, not a natural blonde, etc.), so I got really upset and killed her. But somehow when it comes to killing people who are gay or trans, people think it's a valid excuse. Outrageous.

Mike   April 20th, 2009 12:49 pm ET

In the case of gender, state of mind does not equal reality. I'd like to see a law protecting individuals who are misled into sexual contact by transgendered individuals. In the case where a person feels that under no circumstance would they ever have sexual contact with a person of the same gender, sexual contact resulting from the misrepresentation of gender should be punishable under law as either sexual assault or rape. Maybe then people like Andrade will have recourse other than their own form of justice. In the end the law would protect transgendered people by requiring them to be forthcoming in their true sexual identity. People deserve the right to make informed decisions and despite the belief of the transgendered person that they have been cheated of their true sexual identity, wishing or believing you are truly the opposite sex simple does not make it so.

Jake   April 20th, 2009 12:52 pm ET

Honestly, your reporter are so biased for conviction and hate crime status that it is unfortunate. This man was clearly duping people into believing he was a she. There should be laws to lock people up that pull this fraud on other people. Lacking that, how can you possibly call the defendant a murderer. Possibly manslaughter with no hate except maybe not liking being decieved. Jake

TRACy Thompson   April 20th, 2009 12:55 pm ET

People have a RIGHT to know who they are having sex with. Presenting oneself as one gender when you are another should be a CRIME. There is no condoning the killing of another human being, but with sexuality often defining people whether gay or straight, to deceive someone on such a baser level is criminal. This was A MAN who was killed. A biological man. Perhaps being honest and forthright instead of trying to use someone for his own sexual gain would have saved Justin's life. The killer no doubt was repulsed by the farce perpetrated on him and just SNAPPED. I wish he had not killed Justin and I realize a life has been taken in a very tragic way. But it was not an innocent life. Justin was complicit in his own death. Zapata should be punished, but with the understanding that he was severely provoked. Justin should be mourned and grieved, with the understanding that his lies and deception led to his death.

sparks   April 20th, 2009 1:03 pm ET

He should not have died for what he did. But if there are no laws now there should be to protect others from such deceit. If people choose and it is a choice to live different than what they were born as then they have an obligation to let those they choose to be with know from the start so they can make their choices. Like I said though he should not have been killed and for that the killer must answer.

Day   April 20th, 2009 1:19 pm ET

It is a tragedy that Zapata's life came to such a harsh end. It is also a travesty of justice to minimize the realities in this case because we are all trying to be "sensitive" or PC. This man is on trial for his life and the witnesses are indiscriminately altering facts.

The whole reason there is a case is because Zapata was a male and not a female. If Zapata had been a female as he claimed, there would not be a case being heard.

Andrade's convictions if not related to killing transgender individuals matter not. There was not one sane heterosexual male that I spoke to who did not indicate they would have "lost it" too. As such he should be facing manslaughter charges not murder.

A.L. Owen   April 20th, 2009 1:19 pm ET

As a non-attorney I am wondering why the Court is allowing the victim to be referred to as "She." It appears that there is more interest in why this crime took place than concerns of who did what, where and when.
The other question that I think distorts criminal issues is the so called "hate factor." I have always believed that a crime is a crime. In this case a murder. Why does the Court need to know how the accused felt about men who posed as women? What difference does it make? A person is dead and another person is accused of causing this death.


Ironwomanontheprairie   April 20th, 2009 1:20 pm ET

Blaming the victim, shame. This is a murder, plain and simple. Hate crime-no!

Elizabeth   April 20th, 2009 1:21 pm ET

Ms. Zapata is being victimized all over again while the defense calls her a he, and Justin. How dare they be so disrespectful to the deceased! Can the Judge not do something about this?

Also, I have never seen a court room as a whole drink so much water. They must need a lot of potty breaks.

TRACy Thompson   April 20th, 2009 1:22 pm ET

Kim, gender and hair color are two totally different things. You cannot excuse Justin's deliberate deception. It was criminal and it caused his death. If an adult man "believes" he is a six year old and lives his life as one, does that give him the right to "play house" with other six year olds? Get real. Having male anatomy makes you a man. Nobody should be duped into having a homosexual relationship. For some people it shatters them at their core. It might be great for some, but unacceptable to others. Zapata was provoked and Justin was a liar and a deceptive sexual predator.

Nick   April 20th, 2009 1:23 pm ET

Folks, the point is whether the defendant knew sooner or later. I don't care what Angie's choices in life were. This trial is really about whether the murder was premeditated. Whether anyone approves of anyone else is irrelevant to the trial. If the defendant killed Angie in a rage–as despicable and wrong as that is–it isn't premeditated. If there was a 36 hour gap between knowing about her and killing her, then it is premeditated. Simple, and not about value judgments. This is about how severely to punish the guy. Judging and criticizing the victim here is way out of bounds.

Nick   April 20th, 2009 1:23 pm ET

I agree, at least in part, with one of the previous comments. Fact of the matter remains, however, that this young woman was just that – a young woman. I find it repugnant that people are allowed (or find it convenient) to blame the victim.

Speaking as someone who works in the criminal justice field, it should be remembered that crime victims do have rights, and, above all others, Ms. Zapata had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Regardless of what others may think, the fact that she was a transgendered person does not allow anyone license to commit such a heinous crime.

David   April 20th, 2009 1:25 pm ET

My opinion is that the likelyhood of getting a first degree murder conviction is near zero.

My last trial I sat on as a jury member was a sex related crime in Park County, Colorado, and that trial sicked me from ever wanting to serve on a trial again. It was my third trial I sat on. In that trial, a couple of male jurors, during jury selection said they could be fail and impartial. But during jury deliberations stated that no male boy of 19 should be convicted of anything for putting his hand down a non-consenting girl's panties.

You could see that those gentlemen had beliefs of superiority of man over woman. I say belief, because they were too deep seated to be opinions, but were true beliefs. With even just one Juror like that on this jury, Andrade has a good chance of getting the lightest snetence.

I hope Greeley hasa higher caliber of jury pool than Park County, CO.

Ebony   April 20th, 2009 1:29 pm ET

I agree with tracy. It is amazing how deceitful some people may be. And I think the most he should be charged with is manslaughter. It is wrong to kill. There is nothing that can justify that. However, had he not lied, it would not have resulted in this. I feel that it should be a crime to lead someone on the way that justin did. And i also feel that the killer should be punished for what he did, to a certain extent. Ask yourself, if you are straight. Male or female. How would you feel if you found out that you were sleeping with someone of the same gender? Its ridiculous.

Tambria Moore   April 20th, 2009 1:33 pm ET

Transgender / plural gender is a demonstrable and scientifically measurable condition of a person. It is not a hoax. A scheme. Or a tool to deceive others. Transgender individuals are humans who happen to have biological differences and offer suffer from them. They are one of the most preyed upon, discriminated against and maligned marginalized groups in the world. There is nothing dishonest about being transgender. As it is polite to refrain from stating your characteristics such as age, ethnicity, religion, political preference, or whether your hair is dyed until you feel comfortable doing so, it should be no more or less polite or required to refrain from stating your gender until you feel comfortable and safe doing so. Wonder why this human victim was not comfortable with the relative homeless jobless stranger she attempted to assist with housing and befriend, a stranger from online, a stranger came to her for sustenance, a stranger not welcome in his own home, who then murdered her for being herself. Being a loving generous human being. May she rest in peace. May all of us learn from this. May he consider for a long time, the price of ignorance.

Mike C.   April 20th, 2009 1:34 pm ET

The only excuse for taking another person's life is self-defense. Andrade should be punished to the fullest extent of the law just so that we are reminded of that fact. Regardless of how you feel about transsexualism and what Zapata's role was in the killing, nobody deserves to be helplessly beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Ever.

If Andrade was so concerned about the gender of the person he was having sex with he might have taken more than a day or two to get to know her. I don't see how anyone can sympathize with him or make excuses for him. It is clear that he is a monster.

haylety troy   April 20th, 2009 1:34 pm ET

I agree with Traccy Thompson. No peron should be murdered period. I also believe that if you are proud of being a male living in a female world, you should let anyone involved with you know. There is never an excuse for murder. Zapata is a six time loser who should get the death penalty for all of the broken hearts and lives he destroyed and caused.

TO TRACY THOMPSON   April 20th, 2009 1:36 pm ET

You are an uneducated, closed minded idiot – plan and simple. Of course knowone made him do anything with this young innocent victim. HE COULD HAVE WALKED AWAY. We all get angry, and we all are dealt unhappy and unpleasant surprises in life...what matters is how we carry ourselves in the heat of the moment. If your significant other caught you cheating, or you lied to a friend or family member – is your death then justified? Would your lies and deception make you worthy of being murdered? Please, how do you look at yourself in the mirrow daily. Allen Andrade is clearly a threat to society and should be locked up for the rest of his life. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family.

Peace in the USA   April 20th, 2009 1:41 pm ET

Zapata did not tell the truth about his real gender. If his birth certificate states male, then it makes him a man. He should have included that info in his profile so there is no confusion about the situation. Just like the killer left out the tiny piece of info about being a convicted felon 6 freakin times. Deception with both. This case proves that you really don't know what you are getting involved with when choosing to date over the internet. The victim got a 6 time convicted felon and the criminal got a transgender when he was seeking female companionship.

DSH   April 20th, 2009 1:41 pm ET

This is a clear case of no self control and deadly rage regardless of if he knew in advance or not and more likely a lovers quarrel that the murderer is now trying to hide.

A normal person would have said, "whoa, not my cup of tea"...then promptly left. That said, I wonder how many "normal" people would have gotten themselves in such a bizarre situation in the first place.

Very sad story.

VK   April 20th, 2009 1:43 pm ET

No one deserves to be killed because someone else did not take the time to learn about them before becoming their sexual partner. Andrade is trying to place the blame for his actions on the victim of his rage. The victim should not be on trial here.

Kris   April 20th, 2009 1:44 pm ET

In response to klm, making someone really mad has been used as a mitigating circumstance. Instances of temporary insanity. Also, so-called "crimes of passion" (ie people having affairs, during times of extreme emotional stress, etc) have historically not been punished as severly as the same crime in other circumstances.

I am not saying that this man should not be punished, just that people need to weigh all the factors, issues, and precedents before making incorrect associations.

Edward   April 20th, 2009 1:44 pm ET

what she/he/it did was a matter of rape him. she/he/it misguided this man into thinking that "she" was something "she" was not. Now if "she" had told him that "she" was more of the lines of she/he/it then he might not have had intercourse with her/him/wtf. So the old term "you cant rape the willing" does not really apply because had he knew i don't think he would of been that willing.

Elizabeth   April 20th, 2009 1:45 pm ET

I can understand how this level and type of deception may result in such rage. It is unfortunate that Justin was not honest with his "date" about his sexual gender and of course, very sad that the very young 18 year old Justin lost his life. Although Justin did not deserve a death sentence for his grand mistakes, I agree with some of the other bloggers here that the the defendant Andrade should receive great consideration insofar as mitigating factors. For the murder, I think a conviction of manslaughter would serve justice (of course, as it pertains to the allegations that the defendant took Justin's car, wallet, etc., if found guilty on those charges, he should receive additional time).

Rico   April 20th, 2009 1:48 pm ET

Justice for Justin would be to convict the other man(Andrade) of second degree murder. Andrade was tricked by the male Justin by the outwards fem appearances. Just because Justin wants to be a girl is not enough(for the hate crime to stick), the facts are he had male equipment and his legal name was Justin not "Angie." Justice for Justin is second degree murder for an awful murder but let's not glorify nor justify Justin's deceptive , abhorrent and deviant behavior with a hate crime conviction because that would be wrong.

Ron   April 20th, 2009 1:50 pm ET

The defense has NOT taken the stance that "somehow Zapata’s murder was justified because she was biological male who dared live as a female." The defense HAS taken the stance that someone being decieved about the sex of their partner and killed in a fit of rage should not be found guilty of first murder. I agree that second degree murder or possibly manslaughter would more be appropriate in this case.

Sarah M   April 20th, 2009 1:53 pm ET

Oh come on!, do you really beleive that there is any justifiable excuse for killing this woman? Just because she was at one point in her life genetically male does not give this man the right to murder her.

If you look like a women, you have all the appropriate female parts, you feel, think and live your life as a woman, your whole family says you are a women; who are any of us to say that she isn't.
People don't choose to put themselves through the incredibly hard process of becoming a women. They are women just correcting a genetic error. Doing so is not deciet and for you to think that just shows how completely ignorant you really are.

Do you really think that somone that goes through this process doesn't tell potential partners the truth? They risk their lives to be honest and know they have a relationship with a person that loves then for who they are. I hope her family knows how wonderful their support, love and understanding is.

Crystal   April 20th, 2009 1:54 pm ET

I think honesty plays an important role. Had "she" been upfront about her gender situation all of this might not have happened. I'm not saying that what happened is right, but just that it might have been avoided. Of course what really matters is what comes from deep within a person, beyond their physical appearance, however it didn't appear that this was meant to be a relationship based on emotional attachment. If they spent a weekend together being sexually active, her pleasuring him, then I believe she had a moral right to tell him what he was getting into. I'm wondering what she thought this man might do had he found out on his own like he did? Wasn't he a gang member?

G. A.   April 20th, 2009 1:55 pm ET

I have no problem with transgendered people, and I feel for their struggle. However, if you are going to pursue a relationship with someone you have to do so based on trust. Andrade's actions were wrong, but so were Angie's. I don't believe she deserved to die, but perhaps there is a good message here for all transgendered people – be honest! There ARE people out there who will love you for who you are. It may just take a little longer for you to find them.

crazy_beautiful01   April 20th, 2009 1:56 pm ET

okay if he knew of her transgender state or him being a "women" then can they tell me what his MO was because now i'm confused, if he killed him/her for some other reason besides rage! crime of passion! then what was the reason, until "they " can tell me some other reason Andrade would do this besides what we all believe then please let me know!

edstrother   April 20th, 2009 2:04 pm ET

Deceit is terrible. Enough said-This is a horrible true story!

Chris   April 20th, 2009 2:05 pm ET

Teresa: You say it should be illegal to represent your gender incorrectly to a potential partner? How about all of the people who represent themselves as rich, in a good job, monogamous, or even NICE when in fact that is untrue? How many people have dated someone just to find out they have been decieved in some way, shape or form? Do those victims get to kill their significant other? There would be a lot of mayhem in the world if that was the case. Being deceived by a dating partner is no excuse for murder.

Bill   April 20th, 2009 2:06 pm ET

There are a lot of people here who are commenting on genetics who know very little about it. The fact is that gender stretches far beyond genes. Many females have XXy chromosomes (Klienfelters Syndrome) and some females even have Xy, this is called Adrongen Sensitivity Syndrome and it is a lot more common than you think. These people are functional females but are genetically male. Biological sex is physiological, and gender is a social construct of expectations related to those physical characteristics. The fact is that biological sex is a lot more complex than what we think. This case is good to highlight this issue because ideas of variant genders are threatening to our social concepts. Also, those of you who assume that all transgendered persons have sex changes are very mistaken. Many male to female transgenders do not have a vaginaplasty but choose to keep thier male parts.
The fact remains that this person was killed with malace. Hate crime or not, this man killed a teenager with blunt force. He has a history of violence, a history of drug addiction, an extensive criminal history which involves gang related activities, and was aware of what he was doing. This case is an example of the failure of the criminal justice system. This man was convicted of six felonies and he was still walking the streets. That should be the issue more than if the person lied about thier sex. Despite lying, the CHILD did not deserve to die.

Kate   April 20th, 2009 2:07 pm ET

Gender is not just about the parts, it’s about the heart, the spirit, and the mind. Angie Zapata was, from that perspective, all woman.

Do not disgrace her life with male pronouns or false justifications for brutality.

Amanda   April 20th, 2009 2:08 pm ET

This case is just another example of the cultural misunderstandings between the heterosexual community and the homosexual community. It is true that Angie/Justin presented her/himself as a female but, really, is that any reason to kill a person? So, you find out that Angie was actually Justin, so what?!? Walk out of the house, get mad, yell, but you do not need to kill them.

I realize that this is a hot topic but actually condoning the murderers actions is reprehensible. However, having said that it is becoming more and more common for transgendered individuals to dupe straight men. That is not right and I can totally see the points of the men who think this should be a sex crime. Having played devils advocate for a minute I will get back to common sense- there is NEVER any excuse to kill another human being whether that person is gay-straight, black-white-purple- doesn't matter it is never right or excusable.

Charles   April 20th, 2009 2:10 pm ET

This is a crime of passion, which happens all the time when a lover is lied too or tricked. In this case the lie was the "GOD GIVEN" sex of the victim. Forget about the defendants past, we have no idea what type of feelings he started to have for the victim. Justin played a deadly game the could of been avoided by telling the TRUTH. I don't excuse Zapata for the killing but I don't believe it's a 1st degree murder offense, more like 2nd degree man slaughter. Trust the family has been coached well by the prosecution to push the idea of Justin being a woman which is totally not true. This was a crime of emotions & passion and should be judge as such.

Edward   April 20th, 2009 2:10 pm ET

"I can understand how this level and type of deception may result in such rage. It is unfortunate that Justin was not honest with his “date” about his sexual gender and of course, very sad that the very young 18 year old Justin lost his life. Although Justin did not deserve a death sentence for his grand mistakes, I agree with some of the other bloggers here that the the defendant Andrade should receive great consideration insofar as mitigating factors. For the murder, I think a conviction of manslaughter would serve justice (of course, as it pertains to the allegations that the defendant took Justin’s car, wallet, etc., if found guilty on those charges, he should receive additional time)."

Elizabeth very well said and i would agree with how you think thanks for putting that into better words.

Chi Town   April 20th, 2009 2:12 pm ET

This is a terrible incident. However I don't believe it's a hate crime unless he has a past of attacking gay/transgendar etc... type people.

Hopefully one day we will be able to identify the cause/cure for these types of illness. I feel bad for the family, and do believe he will be convicted of second degree murder... that and his criminal record should keep him in jail for the majority of his life

Greg Dowbak, MD   April 20th, 2009 2:13 pm ET

This murder was a hate crime. Transgendered people have no control over their sexual orientation as it is genetically determined. She is also legally entitled to call herself "female" with or without genital surgery. The murder of this beautiful girl is an outright hate crime. I am a plastic surgeon who has performed numerous sex change surgeries,.

Heather   April 20th, 2009 2:13 pm ET

Just a question to those that continue to call Angie a 'he'.
If I am a natural brunette and dye my hair blonde, am I not blonde? Not by birth, no – but still considered blonde by societal standards – people will refer to me as blonde and will see me and make judgements about me as a blonde.

While it is not morally right to deceive a partner, that does not justify murder. In fact, there is not even a legal recourse of action in that situation as the State tries not to legislate morals – making it even less of a convincing defense. The State would not punish someone for deceiving a partner, yet it is alright for the deceived to brutally beat that person to death?

The only issue at this trial is whether it was a fit of passion, or premeditated.

Davey Grimes   April 20th, 2009 2:20 pm ET

Watching the reaction on the accused, I found it hard to believe that even he wasn't uneasy with seeing the victim's autopsy. I feel extremely sad for the family of the victim and I could only react in shock after hearing how Angie died. I can only ponder what is going through the mind of the accused as all the evidence piles up against him.

Pete   April 20th, 2009 2:21 pm ET

This is a difficult case, on one hand you have a transgendered person who supposedly didn't reveal her true gender, and on the other you have a felon who killed her.

Bottom Line:

Should there be some recourse when a transgendered person doesn't reveal their true sex? I believe the case can made for that. And if it is law, then it's an issue for the courts to decide damages in a civil, or possible criminal action.

However, murdering a person is well established in law. It's only a question of first, second or manslaughter. And this garbage about "...I was red with rage and didn't know what I was doing..." I'm tired of this liberal 'it's not my fault' stuff. Taking responsibility for your actions can be painful, but it's a burden WE ALL need to accept. Period.

Comparison analysis:

A person has sex while knowingly being infected with HIV but doesn't tell his/her partner. There's a civil, possibly criminal action there. But, after the partner kills the person infected, it's murder. HIV doesn't justify the killing.

And there are many more examples but this clearly states my position on this issue.

Allie   April 20th, 2009 2:22 pm ET

This is a tragic case . I have a question/comment. It's been said that Zapata was transgender. However, other statements have led me to believe that she had actually NOT started the process, i.e. using false breasts, still having male genitalia. Had she begun taking female hormones ? If she had not really begun the process, one could consider her a transvestite, not a true transgender. That may put a different spin on the case. Whatever, Andrade's action is horrifying. But Zapata (without having begun the medical process) is male. I am absolutely not rationalizing this killing, just mentioning what I see as a discrepancy.

realman   April 20th, 2009 2:23 pm ET

just like hiv you need to be honest and tell the truth up front not later. he lied ladies. the sooner you get that the better. it doesnt matter what parts he had or didnt have or who called him what. it is not his choice to be a decption to willingly fool others. its his choice to be what he wants to be and to be honest. when you dont you see what happens. this should be a lesson to others to be honest at first rather then later. people are crazy and everyone doesnt find sissys funny or acceptable.

Chris, Kenosha WI   April 20th, 2009 2:24 pm ET

My heart goes out to "Angie's" family. What a terrible vicious death this young person suffered. I am a straight female; however, I believe it is each individual's right to do what ever they want to do. That is what makes our country such a great country, that we as individuals have the right to the pursuit of happiness. I don’t think that right is limited to only straight people. It really saddens me that there are such hateful people in this country. Having said that, I do believe that Angie, or any transgender person really does have a responsibility to tell the person or persons they are close to. I don’t think they have to let the whole world know, but when the person knows they are becoming friends with someone I do believe they should tell them.

I believe that if Andrade had spent three days and nights with Angie before he killed her that he had to have known on the first day/night that Angie was physically a man. Usually there are several signs such as the size of the feet or hands, an Adams apple, the way they walk. I do not believe that he did not know. I don’t believe that he just snapped, but that he “hates” the type of person Angie was so much that he had every intention of killing her from the moment he had met her in person.

Luv   April 20th, 2009 2:24 pm ET

He should be behind bars for life. Not only did he murder a girl because she was transgender but he is also a 6 time felon already!!!!! With this many felons he should already be behind bars.

Sharon   April 20th, 2009 2:33 pm ET

Does transgender mean she had total female parts. Or was she still with male parts, and that is how he found out. I'm just a little confused about this part.

bill   April 20th, 2009 2:34 pm ET

if he didn't reveal himself as a male, i can't blame the man for being upset, but it's no excuse for murder

Karen   April 20th, 2009 2:34 pm ET

People, you are losing focus. HE MURDERED ANOTHER PERSON! It doesn't matter what sex they were. He murdered a person. That is what you should focus on. When a person is taken away from their friends and family, no matter the reason, everyone suffers. Pretty much all of you are laying blame on the victim for being different. In some way, we are all different, does that mean it's OK to take another's life. Because if that is the case, all of you might want to start looking over your shoulders. And as far as Andrade is concerned, he is a coward for not handling the situation differently.


Steve   April 20th, 2009 2:38 pm ET

I have a gay cousin, I have gay and lesbian friends; I am however heterosexual. I feel that Justin was still only a gay man, and should not be refered to as 'she'. He had not legally changed his name. Is not that the deciding factor? name? Until the name was changed and the genitals removed he was still a man, pretending to be a woman. That would be like me pretending to be a doctor and asking everyone to call me Dr. Steve, until I had the education I cannot be called a doctor. Justin's family supported his dream of being a woman however legally, he was still a man. The family insisting on saying "my sister" would only convince me more as a juror that Andrade was being decieved, it was a deception that the family was supporting,and does not make him any more a woman then any other playacting.

Mary   April 20th, 2009 2:38 pm ET

If you subtract the face that Angie was a transgender individual, the fact remains that Andrade killed another human being. Murder is Murder.

Gorgeous B...   April 20th, 2009 2:38 pm ET

I believe that Allen had no right to do what he had did, Yes i know i can be a little heating for a straight guy to know that the person he was with is not a biological female but still thats no excuse to kill a person. Especailly if he knew for at least a day or so still if he didnt like it then he would have left or something at that time, but no i believe that he only did it because he is in a gang and knowing and being around gang members that dont allow that so the only way he could hide it was killing her but which really didnt work cause look now he is all over the tv and know not only a few people know everyone knows but as for me i believe that Allen should face deathrow rather angie did or didnt tell him first thing that he was a transgender angie was still a human. Reguardless of what the situation was Allen still killed her. and about Angie having to tell everyone about her sex change is her choice and when she feels comfortable about it. But Angie did tell him thats all that matters.

hal   April 20th, 2009 2:39 pm ET

I wonder how the prosecutor will explain that this is a hate crime because the defendant hated transgendor people so much that he allegedly found out that the victim was genetically a male on the 15th, yet apparently stayed with him in his apartment for the next day a half or so with him and then killed him on the 17th. It would seem that if he knew of the 15th, he wasn't so concerned as to leave. Seems like it either wasn't a hate crime or the defendant didn't find out when the prosecutor claims he did.

Samantha   April 20th, 2009 2:42 pm ET

Angie is not the one on trial here. It has been said that they only knew eachother for a short period of time, If she did not tell him about being a transgender maybe she had trust issues. It takes time to get to know people. When he found out why kill her? He is still in the wrong regardless of who she was or wasn't.

GeminiSun   April 20th, 2009 2:44 pm ET

Murder is murder, any which way you look at it and it is wrong. Dealing with the anger and rage that anyone would have when deceived, raped, robbed of their own person, where it should be their choice and they should know who they are getting involved with, take the time to know the person, before coming intimate. Which I do think it was a fit of rage, where Zapata was deceived, miss led and essentially violated, this leaves the same feelings as being raped, robbed victimized. So Zapata was a victim first, self defense kicks in, to protect himself, his dignity. Justin/Angie was the responsible for victimizing him. He/She should have been upfront with him, knowing that most males appreciate knowing the facts before being intimate. And he had asked her, and got the answer that she was all woman or something like that, he found out the truth by grabbing at her/his crotch. That doesnt make any kind of violence the right way to respond but now I can think of any one in those circumstances that wouldnt protect their innerself. He shouldnt get life, he should be charged with Manslaughter at the most. There was no premeditation, that I can see, Some Trans-gender individuals get a thrill out of getting in relationships without telling because they are afraid if they do they will be rejected and true that may happen, though sooner or later they will be rejected anyway and worse could happen.

Pat   April 20th, 2009 2:45 pm ET

I cannot believe some of these comment written..It makes my heart ache to see the ignorance of some in this day and age. The fact is Zapata id dead! She/ he was MURDERED!!! the fact that Zapata was transgendered shouldn't matter in any MURDER case.

Angie didn't tell Andrade that she was transgendered..should that justify her murder? NO WAY!!! i could understand him being upset, even verbal abuse...but MURDER? come on people..get a reality check! someone is dead and the dispute is wether Andrade should have sympathy and justification for his crime? be ashamed of yourselves.

Rest in Peace ANGIE

Mara   April 20th, 2009 2:45 pm ET

Robert took the words right out of my mouth. At the end of the day, Angie had a penis and deceived someone else. This didn't excuse a killing, but there is deceit in this.

Chris   April 20th, 2009 2:46 pm ET

I do not beleive this to be a hate crime. I DO believe this defendant "JUST SNAPPED" after being totally deceived. Just as someone might to find out they had been with someone who knowingly infected them with HIV. However the crime was beyond violent and my heart goes out to JUSTIN'S family.

Ouka   April 20th, 2009 2:47 pm ET

Pre-meditated bigotry... During a taped call to his girlfriend from jail, Andrade said "Gay things need to die" and the he thought he had "killed it" after hitting Angela in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Thoughts may not be a crime, but I think it's pretty clear that this guy "pre-meditated" his hate and his bigotry. I'd be ok with murder 2 because it was a crime of passion, but he should also be charged with a hate crime and sentenced to the fullest extent of the law on both charges, and NOT be served concurrently.

Mary Jo   April 20th, 2009 2:52 pm ET

Legally, the victim was male, because he was pre-operative, and still had a penis. He was transgender, and lived as a woman. Fine, that's a personal choice. I don't believe in killing another human being, for any reason, but finding out that you'd had sex with another man, thinking it was a woman, definitely should be considered as a mitigating circumstance.

Factor in that the accused has been in prison, and prison sex isn't always consensual...maybe even more of a mitigating circumstance. Should this guy go to prison? ABSOLUTELY. Should this be considered premeditated murder and a hate crime? NOT NECESSARILY

NR   April 20th, 2009 2:53 pm ET

This trail isn't...and shouldn't be...about sex or sexual identity. It is about MURDER. The reason doesn't make murder any more or less acceptable. In our society, you can't kill other human beings who are not a physical threat to you. PERIOD. Stay focused, people.

Shayna   April 20th, 2009 2:55 pm ET

I agree with Robert 100%. No matter how much make-up he put on, or how how short his skirt may have been Justin is a male. And to lie about it with someone that you are intimate with is no a small lie. I dont believe that he deserved to die, but he should have been honest. It is a shock for anyone to hear something like this and reaction like that is almost expected.

nacho   April 20th, 2009 2:57 pm ET

My cousin is gay and has many transgender friends. I met one of them this summer, Gia, a beautiful woman, who is technically still a male. She was with her boyfriend. I asked my cousin if her boyfriend knew that she was truly a man and I was told YES, that is a MUST, anytime a transgender person starts a relationship they must and do tell the other person of their real biological sex. so take that as hearsay or what you will, but I think Angie may have told Andrade, but he was in denial until it was go time and he actually "saw" the manhood and that's when he lost it and killed Angie.
My heart goes out to her family and I pray that they have peace and closure.

JIM   April 20th, 2009 2:58 pm ET

The man killed another man, You would hope the second man would let the first man in on that little detail.

Casey   April 20th, 2009 2:58 pm ET

I can't believe some of the hatred I'm hearing from some of these commenters. In what universe is it okay to beat someone to death with a fire extinguisher just because YOU THOUGHT they were lying to you? "Oh, well, s/he made me SO MAD and I just couldn't help myself so s/he deserved to die"?!? NO. Regardless of what you may think about ANGIE Zapata's gender status, the fact remains that Allen Andrade could have walked away. He didn't. He chose to murder an innocent human being in cold blood, and he deserves to pay the full price for it.

And to all of you who think that transgendered people should just "be honest" and proclaim their gender switch to the skies...what are you smoking? Being "honest" about being trans works about as well as being "honest" about being gay – both set one up for harassment and possibly violence.

bunbun   April 20th, 2009 3:06 pm ET

First and foremost, what happened to Zapata was horrible and inexcusable, regardless of whether the the victim lied to Andrade or not.

However, I don't quite understand how people can continue to refer to someone as a "woman" when they still have male genitals. Just because you dress and act like a woman, doesn't make you one.

I am a woman by birth myself, so if I start acting and dressing like a man, that doesn't make me one!

Mina Magpie   April 20th, 2009 3:09 pm ET

I would just like to point out to all the posters getting bogged down in whether Angie was a "he" or a "she": Your gender is determined not by what sits between your legs, but by the size of a part of the hypothalamus called the BSTi nucleus. In females it's roughly half the size of that in males. Studies done at Amsterdam University in the early 90's showed that transgender women (male bodied) have a BSTi nucleas the same size as that of regular women, and transgender men (female bodied) the same size as that of regular guys. Ergo, Angie was a SHE, and she wasn't misleading anybody. Andrade reacted out of ignorance and insecurity, but there was nothing justifiable about it.

Mina Magpie.

VickieG   April 20th, 2009 3:10 pm ET

As a person who knows a transgender and what it takes to come to terms with who you know you are in your head and what you feel, this was not an easy decision to make. Of course she should have been up front with him, and it sounds like she was. Here it is in a nutshell, as an adult you can't control your rage when someone shares something with you that you completely and totaly disgree with and just walk away????? I am sorry, but that DOES NOT give him or anyone the right to take the life of someone just because they are different and you don't agree or like it. It seems that the excessive beating proves beyond doubt that this persons issues go much deeper than just "Oh I was outraged at this" ! Who's next some store clerk or a neighbor that he doesn't like? how about a person born a woman and that does something this guy doesn't like or disagrees with and he becomes "enraged" and kills them then what?

brenda   April 20th, 2009 3:49 pm ET

shouldn't the prosecutors have the online chat these 2 people had before they finally hooked up to see if the victim informed the defendent that she was really a he??????????

woodie   April 20th, 2009 3:50 pm ET

Well one thing is for certain. This guy killed another person. It was preventable and totally unnecessary. You cannot let him off the hook because he was the victim of a strange deception. The guy is a menace to society. Letting him go is an insult to everyone, and not just gay people.

LMD   April 20th, 2009 3:54 pm ET

The defense is not trying to "justify" the killing. Murder is Murder, and it's a crime. It's the legal process of "degrees" of murder that are being tried. The defense is trying to provide that the defendent did not committ first degree murder; that is, murder with aforethought; but rather, that the defendent acted in the moment. This defense occurs all the time in male/female homicides. To try to make a "hate crime" out of this goes beyond comprehension. If this were a male/female crime, and for example, one found the other with another, the term "hate crime" would be the furthest thing from anyone's mind.

Am I condoning the crime? Of course not, it was horrible. But let's keep focused on what's really going on and not try to make a "transgender rights" issue out of this.

Tim   April 20th, 2009 3:55 pm ET

This guy should be beaten the same way that he killed. No excuse, the punishment should fit the crime. Angie should have been honest right from the start though. Hopefully in a safe public place. It's just (still) to dangerous out there. I think that she was pretty and did not deserve violence.

Bruce   April 20th, 2009 3:57 pm ET

This guy has been convicted of six felonies? What is he doing out of jail in the first place?

ed   April 20th, 2009 3:59 pm ET

Autumn: "Three strikes" refers to several different state laws. Only Washington State's seems to match your description.

RCW 9.94A.030

CJ   April 20th, 2009 4:00 pm ET

To Greg Dowbak, MD. Thank You!

Some of these people commenting are just purely ignorant, none of who were there so will never know what transpired before he killed her.

RiP Angie.

Mark from Torrance, CA   April 20th, 2009 4:01 pm ET

there is no reason to kill someone.
Not by the state or its citizens.
no matter how upset you were that a man gave you a bj.
he deserves life in prison.

Amanda West   April 20th, 2009 4:06 pm ET

There is never a excuse justifiable in murder. A normal person shows self-control, even when faced with the most extreme circumstances. He should be tried for his actions regardless of the victims identity. Any of you who say otherwise are denying the rights of the victim, who is protected under their constitutional rights. Regardless of sex, race or creed.

Vic Sage   April 20th, 2009 4:07 pm ET

Whoops! I meant to say sex is biological, whereas gender is more an issue of society/social construct. Apologies...

genie   April 20th, 2009 4:12 pm ET

No I dont think alan is a threat to society I believe zapata was a threat to society because he was decietful ! so what if alan was a gang member what does that have to do with being mislead by a man posing as a woman. Thats gross !!! how would anyone feel to have feelings for opposite sex only to find out it was a person of the same sex! I feel justin or angies background shoul be researched more to what kind of person he/she was. I dont think anyone has right to take anothers life but under circumstances dont think he should get life or death for being mislead and betrayed by this person !!!!

Kath   April 20th, 2009 4:27 pm ET

Gender is based on a scientific fact and not a person's desire. A person's sexual organs dictate their sex. When a person has a penis, it makes him a male. Just because a male grows their hair long, acts feminine and wears a dress it does not make him a female.

Just because this male wanted to be a female did not make him a female. Just because he felt like a female did not make him a female.

Annalia   April 20th, 2009 4:29 pm ET

I liken this crime to one where a guy comes home and walks in on his wife in bed with someone else. It's a complete shock. Some people handle it better than others. Others react violently. This case is one of extreme rarity. No one would ever suspect the person they just engaged in sex with was a transgender. I don't think any of us would know how we would react under similar circumstances. I think it's inappropriate to charge him with a hate crime because that would take premeditation, and I don't believe this was the case. I think it was incumbent upon Justin/Angie to disclose this information up front, and was unfortunately very naive of him/her to wait until after the fact.

Rey   April 20th, 2009 4:34 pm ET

"Anyone who is transgender has the responsibility to be upfront" is absurd. The majority of people from this community experience a lack of safety on a daily basis. Need evidence? Check out the comments in this discussion.
I never fail to be surprised by the insensitivity and down right cruelty people harbor when confronted by someone who is other than what they SHOULD be. How about instead of excusing murder because someone got surprised, advocating for people to get to know their sexual partners on something more in depth than first names?

Danna   April 20th, 2009 4:45 pm ET

Just my opinion, of course murder is wrong–the defendant could have easily walked out of the home when he found out the truth. Now he must face the judicial system's decision. But, I think if the victim had been up front when they first established contact, the victim would still be alive today.

Barb W   April 20th, 2009 4:47 pm ET

So if a guy promises me the best sex of my life and it isn't even close, I'm guessing it would OK to kill him in a rage because of false advertising, right? Isn't that what's going on here? "Angie" advertised herself as a female and Allen freaked out on the false ad? Am I permitted to kill the next car salesman who dupes me in a showroom? Come on–it's murder, period. There is no defense unless this was a case of self-defense.

brig   April 20th, 2009 4:51 pm ET

I think the problem with this is that Justin did not inform the defendent of his biological gender. I've heard of this happening before. I'm probably going to make alot of people angry when I write this, but to me it is very similar to rape, in that these were not two consenting individuals. If the defendent knew the truth, he wouldn't have consented. Justin should have told him. It doesn't excuse murder, but I do feel that the defendent was raped in a way.

John   April 20th, 2009 4:54 pm ET

"I wonder how the prosecutor will explain that this is a hate crime because the defendant hated transgendor people so much that he allegedly found out that the victim was genetically a male on the 15th, yet apparently stayed with him in his apartment for the next day a half or so with him and then killed him on the 17th. It would seem that if he knew of the 15th, he wasn’t so concerned as to leave. Seems like it either wasn’t a hate crime or the defendant didn’t find out when the prosecutor claims he did."

Or, it was a premeditated murder and hate crime. And the murderer stayed with her to worm his way into her confidence to make the murder that much easier to carry out.

Grant   April 20th, 2009 4:56 pm ET

Obviously, lots of people think it is ok and excusable to have sex with someone you don't know, and it's also excusable to murder them when you didn't take the time to know who you were having relations with. How sad.

LindaKM   April 20th, 2009 4:58 pm ET

While I believe it was Justin/Angies's right to live his/her life however he/she chose, it was also his/her responsiblibilty to inform the men he/she was planning to have a sexual relationship with that he/she was biologically a male.

This kind of deception can lead and did lead to deadly repercussions. No one deserve to be deceived like that. I am truly sorry he/she was killed but I do not believe the young man who is on trial should be convicted of murder, a lesser offense yes; but not murder.

GD   April 20th, 2009 5:03 pm ET

I'm completely appalled by the comments here. I can't believe so many people would side with a killer! He could have just as easily turned to her and said, "I'm angry that you didn't tell me that you're not biologically a woman and I refuse to associate with you any longer". He chose to take her life. I don't understand how that can be acceptable in any society- regardless of his motivation. Breaks my heart.

My thoughts go out to her family and friends and the LBGT community.

Catherine   April 20th, 2009 5:03 pm ET

So, as I understand the defense, he is not guilty because Angie misrepresented herself as an available female when she was a male.
It would be understandable that the defendent would be very angry but murder is extremely over-reacting. Or is the defense saying that I would also be justified in murdering a married man who misrepresented himself as single to me? Sounds like a very similar situation to me!

SFA Grad   April 20th, 2009 5:03 pm ET

I'm not condoning anything the defendant did. However, it is a bit disconcerting that the victim's family appears to be continuing the charade by referring to the victim using female pronouns, etc. The victim was biologically male and there is no changing that fact. It is wrong for any transgendered person to lie to potential sexual partners. Unfortunately, there are many that look female on the outside and are so convincing that it usually isn't apparent that they aren't really female. Also, there are some transgendered individuals that have no desire to go "all the way" to complete their transition, but rather simply remain a "man living as a woman". Once the clothes and make-up come off at night, they are a man in every sense of the word. Those that delibritely try to fool someone should be ashamed of themselves. However, this in no way condones the actions of the defendant. It should serve as a wake up call that honesty is the best policy.

Vanessa   April 20th, 2009 5:10 pm ET

To say murder is excusable because there was deceit involved is ridiculous. Should it be ok if a man finds out that a woman lied to him about being pregnant with his child to kill her? Uncontrollable rage is not an excuse to commit such an extreme act of violence.

TO TRACY THOMPSON   April 20th, 2009 5:10 pm ET

Who are you to give an excuse for this murderer? I hope your career is not in law. Do you know for sure that he snapped, or maybe was it that his ego and pride got the best of him in that moment? Do you know this? And where does it indicate they had a "relationship"? Clearly he did not know HE was a SHE, so if after a first encounter he THEN finds out he is a leave. You don't kill the person you just met for sexual advances after being disappointed of the outcome. You hop right back on craigslist or some dating website and you start right back at square one. Neither you nor I know the conversation between the two, so who are you to decide? Everyone on here making comments saying that "he was a male and was obligated to tell him" – what is wrong with you? No one individual is responsible for telling anyone their sexual orientation. Or religious background. Or wether your a democrat or republican. Or ANY personal information to that matter..

Some of you on here are forgetting that this was a MURDER.

Forget that fact that there is a transgender involved, and see this is still a MURDER CASE.

kbby   April 20th, 2009 5:13 pm ET

Foolish people. Have a relative of yours be a victim to such a crime, and then say "well he should have been honest". That's America in the 21st century for you.

Sean C.   April 20th, 2009 5:14 pm ET

The thing I don't understand about all this is why the gender of the victim is even an issue. Murder is murder. I understand how it could make the defendant angry, but people get angry everyday and are able to restrain themselves from killing others. Also, the defendant has other crimes on his record. I fail to see how it can be argued that this was a one time thing brought on by unique circumstances. This man is a danger to society and needs to be locked away permanently.

Jill   April 20th, 2009 5:19 pm ET

I think what some people here don't understand is the issue of if the murder was premeditated (thought about and planned) or not (so-called crime of passion). It's not about if it's murder or not, but what degree. The defendant did not sit down and plan this, murdered in a rage, and therefore it's 2nd degree murder.

Gaustin   April 20th, 2009 5:24 pm ET

It could be a very good move on the part of the defense to play the "he" card. The more witnesses that testify for the prosecution to hammer home the "she" part, the more believable the depths of the victim's deception about his true physical sexuality. There's no arguing that the defendant needs to be locked up for good. However, without knowing the intimate details of the case, I will say that the victim doesn't appear totally blameless. If you bring essentially a stranger into your home under sexual pretenses knowing full-well you've been lying about your plumbing, how do you think it's going to end? Maybe not murder, but the outcome can't be good. Justin played with fire and did so with a pretty creepy-looking dude.

Dee   April 20th, 2009 5:27 pm ET

Six time CONVICTED felon????? Convicted of what....that's an interesting question worth asking. Regardless of how mad the defendant was about being deceived, murder is murder and illegal!

rebeca cole   April 20th, 2009 5:28 pm ET

i don't agree with the whole hate crime idea b/c it basically says one life is worth more than another's, that being said, what on earth did this angie/justin person THINK would happen when the defendant or anyone else found out she was really a he? That was very dangerous behavior. The defendant shouldn't get any special treatment or allowances and neither should the victim. One human is dead, one human should go to prison for the rest of their life without parole to pay for their crime. End of story.

Shannon G   April 20th, 2009 5:35 pm ET

I'm a gay woman and being in the gay community and going to clubs, you do run into some drag queens who do not let the man know that is what they are because they feel so strongly that they are female, in that said, that still doesn't give that man the right to take someone life, homophobic are not. The problem is people are engaging in too much casual sex without getting to know the individual. This dude is an felon, the warning signs should have been there in his mind, he is no stranger to that, considering there are a lot of queens in prison.

1st degree murder!

vkr   April 20th, 2009 5:41 pm ET

Andrade could have walked away. There was nothing keeping him there except his own ego. This could not have been the first time in his life that he had been lied to and it will not be the last. That does not excuse murder whatever the lie was.

me   April 20th, 2009 5:44 pm ET

Being deceived is not an excuse for murder. Anyone would be pissed for being lied to, but murder – come on.
Perhaps if she were upfront before it got too far, maybe it could have saved her life.
Emotions and pride – very tough.
My sympathies.

Jennifer   April 20th, 2009 5:47 pm ET

when i'm lied to by someone, my first impulse isn't to kill them. there's no justification for murder...his life wasn't threatened, just his pride.

TK   April 20th, 2009 6:08 pm ET

As for deceit, sales people do it EVERY day to get your business. You still do not have the right to kill anyone unless it is self defense. Perhaps it wasn't the deceit he was angry at but the fact he realised that you can fall in love with a person, not a gender. Wow, what a great world this would be if everyone could realise that!

JLGC   April 20th, 2009 6:12 pm ET

Allen Andrade is clearly a sick individual who belongs in jail. Upon finding out that Angie was biologically male he should have used his impulse control (something my 2 year old is mastering) and walked away. The fact that he chose to take the life of another for no other reason than to satisfy his own feelings of disgust and anger is not a reason to keep him out of prison! However, Angie should have been honest with him. He had reason to feel deceived and angry, she was wrong to lie. The world is not, nor will it ever be, a perfect place...that is why I take kick boxing. She should have protected herself by either being honest, or by realizing that she felt uncomfortable with telling him the truth for a good reason. If you are going to enter into a sexual relationship with someone and already know honesty is a bad idea, perhaps you should look for another mate.

jross   April 20th, 2009 6:19 pm ET

This guy obviously had some type of sexual contact or sexual attraction to this person and was ticked off at himself for being with and/or being attracted to a "man." Instead of getting over it and either making piece with it or moving on from it, he took his anger out on the object of his desire. Deceived or not there is no excuse for murder.

Katie   April 20th, 2009 6:32 pm ET

To "Bill Hurt" who wrote... "Yes, it was (and will continue to be) a “Battle of the Personal Pronouns” which to me is little more then schoolyard antics." You are wrong. I didn't know this woman. I am not from the Greeley, CO area. But from the pictures I see and from what her family says SHE was a beautiful young WOMAN who didn't deserve to die. They are not playing at schoolyard antics when they are speaking about the daughter, sister, and friend whom they loved and held dear. This world has lost a loving soul due to the prejudices and hates of so many people manifested into one man. I pray that this world will one day love one another for all their differences.

TJ5608   April 20th, 2009 6:36 pm ET

Everyone seems to take his word that Angie didn't tell him. This man admits he killed Angie. Why should we believe him that she didn't tell him?

I wish I could believe that the jury would use common sense, but then all you have to do is read the paper to realize how many people don't have any common sense. He deserves to be found guilty.

My heart goes out to the family.

CharleyHH   April 20th, 2009 6:41 pm ET

"It's a horrible crime, and all, but..." That there are people who think that there was a justification in this makes me ill. It's like referring to the holocast as "Hitler's actions were bad, but had the Jews just left none of it would have happened.' There is no justification for taking another persons LIFE because you don't like something about them. NONE. If you do, then I believe you forfeit your own rights, because you have taken someone elses away. If this had been a Satanist who killed a Christian, because they were dating and the Christian hadn't told the Satanist she had been called to that path, then there would be no question in alot of these comments. However, there is still much ignorance (by both professionals and laymen) when it comes to transgender issues. It's sad the victim is being painted as a villian while the man who took her life is being made to seem like the hapless and justified martyr.

will   April 20th, 2009 6:44 pm ET

A man walks into his bedroom to find his wife engaged in a sex act with another man. The husband loses it and kills the man having sex with his wife.

It's known as a crime of passion. The husband in many cases has walked out the door. Doesn't make it right.....but true nonetheless.

Defense here is pleading a "crime of passion" for the poor defendent who may or may not have known he was having sex with a person owning male appendages.

Simple defense and he may well win if through nothing else but a hung jury.

M   April 20th, 2009 6:49 pm ET

As a parent of a transgendered child I am terrorized by what happened to this girl. My child was also born, Justin and is no longer a male, but is a beautiful woman named Jessi. I fear for my own child every day because of people like this man. Time to get diverse people and let people just be who they are. Time to stop hating already! For those of you who think trangsgender is perverse or disgusting, try educating yourselves. There is a lot of great literature on the web about what makes a transgendered person. I hope this man pays to the fullest extent of the law!!

~Mishelly~   April 20th, 2009 6:49 pm ET

OK, there are some very ignorant people here. You are saying that he DID NOT know when they were in the courtroom and they called the name Justin out? Then he had seen some pics of her as well raising more suspicion? He knew but he was so homophobic that he couldnt just admit it because he knew he liked it. (point blank) No one ever deserves to be murdered for ANY reason what so ever. Obviosly you have never had someone close to you killed. The families go through hell and back from courtrooms to media chasing them its ridiculous. I know I have been there. You should please get your facts straight before running off at the mouth.

Frankie   April 20th, 2009 6:58 pm ET

No one has the right to take a life just for being deceived. If that were the case there would be a heck of a lot more murders. If Andrade would have just kept it in his pants this whole thing could've been avoided. I mean, if Angie were biologically a female but had an STD isn't that just as big if not bigger of a deceit, especially as it would be a life threatening deceit? People really need to put the reality into perspective.

Glen C   April 20th, 2009 7:02 pm ET

My condolences to the family, Angie or Justin whatever was and is a child of god as we All are. having server as much time in prison as the Allen has, he of all people should have known that Angie was transgendered. what he did was not out of disgust or rage but a total disreguard for anyone other than himself. ( major sicko ). I do not know what is wrong with the priaon system in our beautiful country but we need to fix it quick or this sort of thing will become a every day thing.Every person on the porole board that voted to let him go free should share in his sentance. I would not want to Allen on Judgement day!!!!

Lola Jenkins   April 20th, 2009 7:07 pm ET

It is an awful shame that one of our sisters has been violently taken from us and that people actually see the murderer as the victim. We all have our dirty little secrets that we hide from others. Drugs, money problems, alcohilism, porn/gambling addictions, you name it-we Americans got it. To be killed for sucking a man's dick is a bit harsh don't you think? Think about it folks-would you trade your dirty little secret with Angie's? I think not. Did she/he deserve to die a violent death because of her dirty little secret? I think not. Unless you are ready to trade with her-keep your mouths shut and live with your own DLS!

damommy   April 20th, 2009 7:14 pm ET

If deception and portraying oneself as something other than the absolute truth are grounds for justifiable murder than most couples going through divorce have these same grounds. It is the same shock and outrage as one going through a divorce and the people involved become someone other than the person they thought they were marrying. Murder was not and never will be a justifiable action. This is the real world where people are not always honest and it is also our own responsibility to have our eyes wide open and KNOW who we are getting involved with.

ToddinLA   April 20th, 2009 7:44 pm ET

Murder is murder people. No debate.

bunbun   April 20th, 2009 7:44 pm ET

Mina – Do you have a website you'd like to refer to in order to back up your BSTi nucleus argument? Surprisingly, a Google search didn't turn up much.

Also, you don't know how big Zapara's so-called BSTi nucleus was. It's easy for you to assume it was in-line with a woman's, but the fact is, we don't know either way.

delena   April 20th, 2009 7:45 pm ET

Her gender should not play into this case. Plain and simple fact – a murder was commited and our laws dictate the person responsible should pay for the crime commited. I agree with VickieG – he should have walked away.

Troy   April 20th, 2009 8:19 pm ET

Just to clarify;

The victim was transgendered.

The accused is less than a man!

Craig Collier   April 20th, 2009 8:42 pm ET

It seems to me, after reading some of these comments that some of these bigots should actually move to Iran. Look you morons, if you aren't confident and comfortable with your own sexuality, then maybe you really aren't sure of your sexual status as it is. I personally am comfortable with my heteralsexual status, so much so that I would simply excuse myself and walk away from another person who maybe misled me with their sexuality. I might even see the joke in it. I certainly wouldn't kill someone for something so small as that.

jaime   April 20th, 2009 9:15 pm ET

how is it known for fact that angie lied about her (his) gender? what allan did was horrific and completely unexcuseable and he should be punished. i don't care how angry you are in thinking someone lied to you, that doesn't give you the right to take away their life. may angie rest in peace and know that her family is carrying on respecting the fact she was a woman.

Shanna   April 20th, 2009 9:30 pm ET

Its not wrong that she wanted to live as a female, what was wrong was that she didnt tell him she was a biological male. She did not deserve to be killed, either way, he deserves to be punished for his crime.

Open Minded   April 20th, 2009 9:36 pm ET

This is a clear case of deception and why do they keep referring to him as HE! The defendant is an animal pretending to be a human being.

She was a real human being filled with love and loving life. How can anyone support or excuse this type of murder? Because 4 words may not have been spoken, "I was born male", murder is justified? Are you serious?

This is a clear case of murder by a weak individual. He couldn't handle it so he brutally destroyed her. Who cares if he was a she, or she was a he, or he is he? Get over it! Will it really make your world stop spinning? Will it cause your life to end? Live and let live.

This is clearly a hate crime with death as a consequence.

Jade   April 20th, 2009 11:09 pm ET

The question right now of whether to call the victim by Angie or Justin should be considered by a) Respect for the individual's choice name, what they went by in the time of death and b) Respect of the grieving family. It is ridiculous that the defense would be that disrespectful to a family grieving and people say 'well, anatomically HE was MALE.' Well, if it is classified as the 'Angie Zapata case' everywhere and anywhere, her family put that on a headstone, that is who it is, Angie, a bright young woman with a future.
I hope people do not get into the thought that transgenders are deceitful and what not. Simply is not true, I have met a few transgenders and that is usually one of the first things they tell a person when that person begins to be interested in them.
The way this is turning, he knew before that particular time. Perhaps, it's when he saw for himself what she had been talking about, he lost it. Still no excuse.

k   April 21st, 2009 12:45 am ET

This person was not trans-gender but was cross dressing. Trans-gender applies to those who have had a sex change operation. This person had not had that operation, had a penis, and dressed as as woman. The media needs to use the correct terminology.

Aaron   April 21st, 2009 2:37 am ET

This whole thing is sad. It's not that uncommon either. R. Crumb did a piece on it in the 70s. Ray Davies and the Kinks did a song about it. Zapata almost certainly knew that Andrade would find out. In fact, that may have been the basic idea. Part of the thrill is the unfolding of the deception. Some would say it's not very cool, but most would also say that one shouldn't have to pay for what snaps their socks with their life.

Bunbun, "men" and "women" aren't nearly as concrete as concepts as you think. Every year, thousands of people are born with ambiguous genitalia. In most cases, arbitrary decisions are made at birth as to which way to go, and some surgery is performed. In some cases, however, the doctors or parents guess wrong, or nature opted to give someone the genitalia of one sex and the brain wiring of another. Women with penises and men with vaginas exist, including those who didn't get that way surgically. The reason you don't hear much about them is because they are fully aware that people like you and Andrade have a big problem with it.

Corey   April 21st, 2009 9:28 am ET

Why is it even a question if Justin should be called a he or a she? He's a he. Just because he wants to be a girl and acts and dresses like one, doesn't make him one. Did he have a period? Could he have a baby? If he was in jail, where would they put him? With the men.

Cece   April 21st, 2009 10:12 am ET

I feel sorry for the family, but it's still Justin, not Angie. He didn't get the operation to MAKE him be a she. So why are we calling him "Angie" when everyone knows that "Angie" is really Justin? Call him what he IS: a male with a male name.

Tina   April 21st, 2009 10:54 am ET

I would like to point out that it is the defendant that is claiming Angie did not disclose her transgender status to him. We do not know that to be fact, this man is a convicted felon and has admitted to murder. How are we supposed to believe anything that he says? For all we know Angie could have told him up front and he willingly became intimate with her only to change his mind later.

Stop blaming the victim.

LENNON   April 21st, 2009 11:22 am ET

This was a terrible act but aren't trandsgenders a little liable because they aren't being truthful they have to know that when they lie something could happen here is a man who thinks your a girl and he finds out your a man after he touched you like a women should be touched, yes it was 36hrs maybe he was in shocked and was trying to process it and when he did he lost it, I think Trandsgenders should be up front and let the person know there sex so stuff like this won't happen, but the guy was still wrong he did not have to kill that person like that.

Eric - Lawrenceburg, TN   April 21st, 2009 11:38 am ET

Personally I believe the victim should be referred to as "He".
He was born into this world as a male, and the creation of humans are gifts from God, anyone who reads the bible knows God does not condone homosexuality.
Homosexuality is a sin and anyone who does not believe such is false in their own minds.
God created humans in his likeness, he created Adam and from a rib of Adam he created Eve.
I get so tired of seeing all these "Gay rights" activists, they compare it to the racial activists of the sixties, God loves all races, black, white, yellow skinned, but when it comes to homosexuals God destroyed two cities Sodom & Gomorrah due to largely in fact of homosexuality.
I do not judge them, it is not my place to yet they will see when the day of judgment comes to us all whether homosexuality is right, and there are gonna be a lot of surprised souls.

Lori   April 21st, 2009 12:58 pm ET

Did all of you miss the testimony about the DNA? I knew he had a secret he wanted to hide and now he is trying to say "I just snapped"

GeminiSun   April 21st, 2009 2:36 pm ET

I agree, he is a He, where people are wrong is that God doesnt make mistakes, people do. I havent heard one person say here that the guy should walk, Murder is Murder, and if its 20, 30 or Life, that the man gets is the question. I agree he is less than a man, cause a true man that was ok with his sexual self, would have kicked themselves for no seeing it,, them may have decked the guy out of anger, kicked them and walked, At this point I tell whomever knew we were seeing each other that it was a non issue, may even make a joke of them somehow to save face and cover ego, but wouldnt kill. The issue with me is premeditation, dont know how it can be first degree, where I havent yet seen any premediation, planning, done ahead of time. Maybe it will come out later... but as of right now, second degree or manslaughter is what I see. He grabbed a fire extinguisher, now why would someone that premeditated a murder choose that as a weapon??

zenaida b. broquel   April 21st, 2009 2:52 pm ET

yes, i do believe that allen andrade did love angie zapata for that short of time that they are talking in the internet and phone and that although allen reallized that angie is genetally a man but b-coz he fall in love to her allen cannot accept the truth so allen end up in killing angie.besides i saw and i heard in his phone coversation with her ex-girlfriend ( i forgot her name) but she is in the witness stand, that he wanted to have kids.sothose are the things reasons why zapataend up in killing angie.well HE GOT TO PAY FOR IT.

B.   April 21st, 2009 2:59 pm ET

I think since we are supposed to be the supreme beings (humans in general), that this person took the life of another and, it's still murder and unexcusable... everyone has a right to live regardless of preference. All I can say is when the victim is referred to as an it, the defendant thought of the vic as disposable, plain wrong. I'm not saying anyones sexuality is right or wrong, I'm het, but we are the melting pot of the world, we have all religions, races and, sexualities. It should be a good place regardless... we are supposed to be all free.

zenaida b. broquel   April 21st, 2009 3:00 pm ET


Tori   April 21st, 2009 3:37 pm ET

IF we, as transgendered individuals, tell everyone we meet that we are transsexual, we risk being beat up or killed. There are incidents every day where a transgender person is attacked or killed just because they are walking down the street. That is what this is all about! Murder is murder people. Think about your hate and your comments. Angie was not hurting anyone. She was living her life. What was this six time felon doing on the streets anyway? Sounds like justice for Angie failed her before she and Andrade even met!

As an aside: I am a transgender and I am in the forensics field. No one deserves to be murdered. Period. I don't tell everyone I meet...I don't wear a sign. I don't even tell the jurors when I testify on court cases. Should I? Does it matter? It does not affect the way I do my job or my scruples.

Bree   April 21st, 2009 5:44 pm ET

Does it matter if the victim was male or female or both or neither? A life was taken unjustly!

pauline   April 21st, 2009 7:05 pm ET

I think just cuz he is a trangendered does not give any one the right to kill them thats thier live they choose to live it the way the way they want to just cuz he is in a gang i understand he had to be this big bad guy and not let his friends find out that he maybe likes transgendered thats why he killed her angie. yet so young and so little time to live just cuz a bad ass had to proctect himself and not letting any one finding out well why be with them leave them be let them live the why they want to so allen knew what he was doing just to be bad that still is not the right to take someones life how would he feel if it was in his shoes not i bet i feel for the family of angie zapata cuz now she has no life to enjoy my simpathy goes out to the zapata family. why did he just walk away why take the life of i think he should pay for what he did.

B.   April 22nd, 2009 2:38 am ET

I totally agree, and I was in the mil. for a long time. I'm sure we have all seen the stats... 1 in 12 trans are attacked in their life at least once, alot are fatal. This case looks as though Andrade knew for a while Angie was trans. The bottom line... she was murdered! Again, what the hell was he doing on the streets to begin with? Problem with the judicatory system mabye?

Sarah   April 22nd, 2009 7:54 am ET

No matter what your opinion maybe on transgender issue, there is NO excuse for murder. The defendant is a six-time convicted felon who knew what he was doing. Really, an 18 year old is dead, and we're all coming up with excuses for the murderer?

Valeri   April 22nd, 2009 8:00 am ET

It's true, "Fear and Ignorance Breed Prejudice"
Jr. High School opinions always surface when an individual lacks the knowledge on transgenderism or any subject. I fear for my life every day, as a pre-op transsexual and the only way to be safe is for me wearing unisex clothing. Several comments were made from individuals in my community (Central PA ) about 12 years ago when I transitioned. "If they want a sex change, we can take them out back and give them one." Regardless who knew what, no one should kill or be killed. I hope justice prevails in this case and most of all, people would realize just how ignorant they truly are when it comes to transgenderism.

B.   April 22nd, 2009 10:11 am ET

Last sentence correction ( Problem with the judicial system maybe )?

jim   April 22nd, 2009 10:30 am ET

had justin zapata dressed and acted as the queen of england, would you have bowed and said "your grace"????

Gwen   April 22nd, 2009 11:25 am ET

The defendant (who I don't feel deserves his name being mentioned),
was living a lifestyle he did not want anyone to discover. Angie may have had an opportunity to "talk" about her sexual encounter with the defendant to others they both knew, and he was not going to let that happen, he would rather go to prison than admit he is enjoying a bi-sexual lifestyle.

jesse   April 22nd, 2009 12:15 pm ET

This case goes to one thing that is muder he admited that he killed her. he was on moco space, in a bi chat room and that tells me that he was looking for one thing it was a gay man or a transgender person so that should be the one thing that everbody should be looking at and that is he is bi and that this is not the first time he has meet a transgender person and that he was looking for somebody that did not live in his town. Angie was not doing anything bad as she was just starting he auduilt lif as a women and im sure that she would have had her name changed and that she would have had the surgrey has soon as she had the money to do so. this case is just another hate crime agianst the lgbt community we will not get socity to understand us as long as we have people like this defd.

B.   April 22nd, 2009 2:03 pm ET

Why do the defense attorneys go back and forth about Justin and Angie. They continually say he and, then they say Angie or she? To much... murder is murder.

Brenda   April 22nd, 2009 4:22 pm ET

Amazing that so many people are apparently willing to buy into this career criminal's self-serving defense.

Andrade had already committed SIX felonies by the time he met Angie. What did his other victims do to provoke his crimes?

He is a classic repeat violent offender and if he had not killed Angie, he would likely have injured or killed someone else. To multiple felon Andrade, Angie represented the perfect, vulnerable victim.

Andrade has been incarcerated before; hard to believe that this was his first sexual experience with someone other than a hetero female. I'm not buying his alleged shock or rage. He killed Angie because he wanted to rob her. He thought he might get away with it if he claimed she fooled him.

DL   April 22nd, 2009 8:52 pm ET

this guy should definely get sent to prison for murder...what i disagree with is the new laws about "hate" crimes. I thought a crime was a crime no matter what kind of person it was done against. This adding a label to crimes and to other things has gotten so out of hand. Just because you are gay/lesbian/bi/transexual does not mean you have special rights and should be treated differently in all aspects of life. I thought all people were equal, but laws like this change that theory.

Tori   April 24th, 2009 7:58 am ET

DL, the difference is that the victim is targeted, attacked, and/or killed simply because of the way they live their life, the color of their skin, religion beliefs, etc. It is not just a LGBT issue. A crime is a crime but the added charges of a hate based crime can keep someone in prison longer to protect the public as long as possible.

B.   April 24th, 2009 10:56 am ET

- I totally agree that everyone is equal. If you kill someone regardless of sex, gender, religion, or race... it's still a hate crime. Hell, you don't commit murder because you love them.

frederictesta@   April 25th, 2009 2:09 am ET

sick in the head is sick in the head they both are sick .but he should not have killed him

kristy   April 25th, 2009 2:30 am ET

Two wrongs don't make anything right. Deception of any gender is wrong and there should be laws that protect the deceived just as there are laws that protect victims of murder. If living life as the opposite gender is ones preference then JUST BE HONEST. If advocates can speak out for the transgender, who speaks for the ones decieved. Think about it if one is fooled by the same sex it can humiliate, devestate and destoy ones dignity. If people find out one would be made fun of, taunted, labeled. So again where are the laws to protect ones deceived. Yes he should be punished for taking a life but he could be a victim also. Felonies range from a number of different situations and convicted means he has done his time.

d   April 26th, 2009 3:38 pm ET

As a member of the jury, the prosecution showed that Ms. Zapata had been known to tell others of her natural identity. The prosecustion also showed that Mr. Andrade could have reached for the front door handle easier than he could reach the fire extinquisher. Mr. Andrade himself showed that he had issues with Ms. Zapata's identify. The prosecution showed that Mr. Andrade had been in places that, even if Ms. Zapata did not do it herself, would have let everyone know that she was a he. The crime scene itself showed that there was nothing going on when Ms. Zapata was struck. There was no signs of struggles or that Ms. Zapata ever got up off the floor.

What I have heard since rendering this verdict has verified for me that the decision that the jury made was more than correct. Ms. Zapata's mentor had been checking up on her on the internet to make sure she was telling others. Her sister had said in testimony that she had asked other men if Ms. Zapata had told them about her transgender status. Ms. Zapata was warned time and again by family and friends to tell. As close as this family seems to be, Ms. Zapata's biggest worry would have been one of her sisters telling someone what was going on and then getting into trouble from big sister for not telling.

Did Mr. Andrade tell Ms. Zapata that he had been in a gang that was homophobic and that he had been convicted of crimes against a person, theft, car theft???? If she had known that, would she have invited him up to spend some time with her? Who decieved who?

This was a case of, first murder, then of the hate crime. Prosecution showed that there was time for Mr. Andrade to leave the apartment. The argument of how would he get home would not apply, Mr. Andrade was playing at least two women in Denver that are known. How many others could he have called to come and get him is still to be seen.

Again, the prosecution, and Mr. Andrade himself, gave enough evidence to show that there was premeditation and time for Mr. Andrade to walk away. And that the crime was committed solely for the fact that Ms. Zapata was transgendered.

T   April 28th, 2009 3:27 pm ET

Wasn't this girl a minor? Yes, the murder was TERRIBLY WRONG, but what was she doing looking for sex on the web? That's just wrong – none of this would have happened!

Jan   May 27th, 2009 2:18 pm ET

Justin was Justin – Not Angie. Justin was to blame as much as Andrade – Justin deceived Andrade also.

Laura   May 30th, 2009 5:54 pm ET

This is a court of law, the legal name and gender of the victim should have been used to identify him by all of the officers of the court.

And why is this persons life worth more than someone who is not decieving people?

Why should this persons murder warrant a harsher sentence than that of a straight person?

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