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April 17, 2009

Transgender murder trial: Hate crime charge may be a first

Posted: 09:14 AM ET

GREELEY, Colorado–The murder trial of Allen Andrade, underway in Greeley, Colorado, is being watched closely across the country. Andrade is accused of bludgeoning to death Angie Zapata, a transgender female, last July.

art.zapata.jpg

Justin "Angie" Zapata was killed by a man she met over the Internet during the summer of 2008.

Since the defense concedes Andrade is the killer, the question at trial is what level of homicide it is: first-degree murder or some lesser degree. The defense says Andrade killed Zapata in rage after learning that the woman he was with was biologically male. The prosecution says Andrade knew for at least 36 hours before the murder that Zapata was born a male, which supports their theory of a premeditated murder—not an uncontrollable rage.

Andrade is charged not only with murder, but with a bias-motivated crime. Though bias-motivated crime is a lower felony than murder, the charge is significant for this is believed to be one of the first cases to charge a hate crime where the victim is a transgender person.

Angie Zapata, born Justin, started living as a female about three years before she died. She and Andrade met on a social networking website and, after some days of online communications, they decided to meet in person. On July 14, 2008, Zapata drove more than 50 miles to pick up Andrade and bring him to her Greeley, CO apartment. They spent the next few days together.

In opening statements Thursday, the jury of 10 men and four women learned from prosecutor Brandi Nieto that Andrade accompanied Zapata to Greeley municipal court on July 15 to answer a traffic ticket. The ticket was issued in the name of Justin Zapata. That, according to the State, is when Andrade knew, if he didn’t know it earlier, that Zapata was biologically a male. Although the jury has yet to hear the coroner’s estimate of time of death, it appears that Zapata was killed in the early hours of July 17—long after the court appearance.

In his opening statements, defense attorney Bradley Martin emphasized that this is not a case about lifestyle and right or wrong; that it’s a case about Zapata’s deceit. The hate crimes statute protects transgender people. Yet, it appears the defense wants to use that protected class status to justify a conviction of something less than first-degree murder.

Nine witnesses have testified so far, including the first officers and paramedic on the scene, neighbors who saw Zapata the night before her murder, and the officers who arrested Andrade two weeks later. The trial is expected to last through next week.

Stay tuned to In Session as I bring you all the latest details from inside the courtroom.

–Beth Karas, In Session correspondent

Filed under: Uncategorized


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Peggy Davis   April 17th, 2009 9:23 am ET

We MUST teach our children to NOT hate


Kris B.   April 17th, 2009 9:26 am ET

The question of how to stop hate crimes was asked.
One of the very first steps, I think, should be more diversity education in our schools, starting at an early age. I've worked with various diversity groups, and many (if not all) of them started at the high school age. That might be too late. It is, of course, better than nothing.
One of the tools we used was something called "10 Ways to Stop the Hate". Ten items were read to students, and then a brainstorming session followed to add on to it. We were always very well received.

Get the ADL in schools, and hopefully things will start to turn around.


Marilyn E Spencer   April 17th, 2009 9:49 am ET

In response to the ? of how to prevent hate crimes: There's a song from South Pacific that goes "you have to be taught, before it's to late, before you are six, or seven or eight...to hate all the people your relatives hate. You have to be carefully taught.." So, I guess, what I'm saying is; teaching tolerance of differences–However, sad to say, I haven't seen that working so well in my 67 yrs on this earth. So not sure there is an answer....Sad!


Mitchell Gornto   April 17th, 2009 10:05 am ET

I think this horrible, killing someone because they are gay is terrible. I believe its racist.


Leon Adams   April 17th, 2009 10:30 am ET

If Allen Andrade did not premeditate this killing and he acted out in an instant rage, wouldn't he have killed the victim with his hands and not search for an object to strike Angie with? Searching for a hard object that he knew would cause Angie bodily harm would strike me as premeditation in itself.


James in Florida   April 17th, 2009 10:35 am ET

From personal experience, this is total deception, I would compare what HE (Justin) did with the actions of a rapist. When I found out a person I believed was female had really been a man before surgery, I was disgusted, humiliated and ashamed. I felt dirty like someone who has been raped would feel. To this day, 7 years later, I still get mad when I think about it.
If Justin had said, hey I'm girl in a guys body up front in the relationship, it never would have escalated to murder.
Justin is not a trans-gender woman, he's a trans-gender male, no? To each there own...just be honest about it.


cea   April 17th, 2009 10:40 am ET

Justifiable homicide.......Tricking someone into a homosexual act is just wrong. Probably shouldn't have killed Him, but that would definitely skew your reasoning for quite a while.


Bill in VA   April 17th, 2009 10:50 am ET

Hate crime my eye! Aren't all violent crimes "hate crimes"? If this dead guy (and he is still a guy) were having sex with the killer's mom and the killer found out and killed him, that's a hate crime too, but it isn't classified as a hate crime, is it? This guy should be charged SOLELY for a murder, not a hate crime.


marja pimentel   April 17th, 2009 10:53 am ET

I agree with the defense that this was not a hate crime. Honesty from the victim may have prevent the whole situation if she/he had inform the defendant of the truth, which is "I am truly a transgender". Instead, she played with the feelings andf true identity of the defendant. Whats to be learned? that dishonesty can be one of the most hurtful things. If the defendant knew the truth he would have been giving the chance to make as decision. There was not premeditation on this crime. Certanly, the victim did not deserve to die for it.


tom   April 17th, 2009 10:55 am ET

I don't believe in hate crimes. A crime is a crime, regardless of motive, regardless of whether the motive is lust, greed, or hate.

That being said, I don't believe this qualifies as a "hate" crime. The guy didn't go out looking to kill this transgender victim; instead, he only killed him because of the deceit and because, unbeknownst to him, he had been having sex with a man.

I'm not condoning what the killer did. The killer should spend the rest of his life in prison. But he should not be charged with a hate crime.


Raul   April 17th, 2009 10:55 am ET

Based on the information currently known, there doesnt appear to be premeditation or evidence of a killing based on sexuality/orientation. The killing would be based more on the defendant's anger over the victim's deliberate lie/deceit, which is bad, of course, but not a hate crime. In other words, the defendant didn't get up in the morning and say "you know what, I think I'll go kill a transgender person because I hate them." Of course, killing is wrong and the defendant should be prosecuted for that, but I dont think this was a deliberate killing based on the victim's trangender status, which hate crimes were designed to protect.


Jen   April 17th, 2009 10:56 am ET

This is a terrible crime...I am not taking anything away from it. But the hate crime people need to stop and realize that if this person isn't truthful is lying about who they are..that's not right. It would be one thing if he/she came forward and said this is who i am...but when someone is lied to and feels embarrassing/ashamed/etc..it's not completely right/true to say it was a Hate crime. crime of passion, heat of the moment, Snapping out cuz he can't believe this... but hate crime? it doesn't sound premeditated...

i don't think he should get away, i believe in an eye for an eye. but it's not right to say hate crime.. the person in question wasn't truthful about Who he/she was... certain groups just need something to whine about..and it's not right in this case.


Micah Brown   April 17th, 2009 10:59 am ET

SHADES at Ohio University stands by Angie Zapata and her family.


Lois Demille   April 17th, 2009 10:59 am ET

This is a story about a murder. A man murdered this woman. He knew well in advance of killing her that she was Transgender. This is 1st degree murder. He could have just as easily taken a bus back home. He chose to kill her. He deserves the sentence of a murderer!


Chris   April 17th, 2009 11:00 am ET

I believe everyone has the right to live the way they choose. That is one of the founding belief's of any civil rights movement, be it racial or in relation to sexual identity.

But, people that aren't of an A-typical sexual orientation are obligated to inform potential partners of it prior to any sort of romantic engagement.

It was deceitful, Angie basically destroyed a man emotionally and made him question his core beliefs of being hetrosexual. And this man, reacted not only as if he had been lied to, but as if he had been sexually assaulted.

His actions in no way are acceptable however, but the responsibility lies in the transgender partner to fully disclose pertinent sexual identity information, not only because its moral, but because it is the safest thing they can do to avoid an enraged lover seeking revenge.


Jimm   April 17th, 2009 11:04 am ET

Way to go CNN. Call a "transgender" "she". This guy who murdered this person is horrible and should receive whatever punishment is just, but enough with your "progressive" BS.


Michael Link   April 17th, 2009 11:04 am ET

If it can be proven that Justin intentionally hid his sexual identity from Allen, then it is should be involuntary manslaughter.


Jackie in Dallas   April 17th, 2009 11:07 am ET

From previously viewed descriptions of the death, repeated bludgeonings using a fire extinguisher, Andrade exhibited both rage and a thought out consideration as he attempted to clean up the site. That is NOT thoughtless rage, that's thought out rage.

I'm glad I'm not on the jury. I don't think that I could view the evidence without prejudice. I want to see Andrade face the maximum penalty because this definitely WAS a hate crime.

I'm not gay, but I see the effects of being outed on the lives of the gay and transgendered since I have friends who are both. Many live in fear constantly. While you may not agree with their lifestyles, you don't know the demons that they face inside and the hatred they face from outside. It is sad, and isolating, for them.


mississippi librarian   April 17th, 2009 11:12 am ET

I am so sorry for Angie and his family, however, this is not a hate crime. When Angie knowingly represented himself as a woman when he knew that he was a man, he in effect participated in his own death. I might consider this 'suicide by lover,' for lack of a better term, before I consider it murder. This death cannot be equated to a hate crime because these individuals had a prior history, they knew each other, or at least Allen thought he knew Angie. Angie willingly and knowingly lied about the gender issue, representing himself as a female when he knew full well that he was a male. I consider this a crime of passion in which Allen became enraged because he was misled by Angie. Bottom line, Angie should have told him that he was a male and let Allen make the decison about rather he wanted to be with a man or not, by not telling him Angie in effect made a straight man gay, and Allen did not take to kindly to it. To me it is the same as someone knowingly having HIV or AIDS yet they continue to have sex in an effort to spread the disease to unsuspecting individuals. I would never vote to convict Allen of Murder because then that means that GLBT individuals would take that as a signal that they can not tell the person that they are with about their gender, in effect taking away that other person's right to make a decision about rather or not they want to have "gay sex."


Phil   April 17th, 2009 11:13 am ET

Murder is murder and should be punished accordingly! Period.

However, if quotes attributed to him (and let's remember the man is GENETICALLY a man) in a CNN article yesterday that when asked directly about his gender Zapata replied, "I am all woman". Contrary to his psychological desire, this is factually not true. Period.

As a "minority" myself I can only reiterate; punish the crime that was commited, but society can not "tack on" additional time based on an outcome that, in part, elevated due to a person's desire to pass themselves off as something they are not.


Daniel Verastegui   April 17th, 2009 11:14 am ET

It is very sad that in this day and age that people like Allan Andrade cannot let go of the rage and walk away. Taking Justin/Angie's life and throwing it away like a piece of garbage is the only solution for someone like Andrade. Our world needs to heal it's self.


BobInTexas   April 17th, 2009 11:15 am ET

The crux of this is well expressed by the text from the article above: "after learning that the woman he was with was biologically male." If biologically male (and in this case still male equipped), then the term "woman" is inappropriate. A transgendered individual has every right to modify themselves from their genetic sexual cast, but if they do not start off any new relationship with the fact they are a tranny, then they have lied to their partner in the most intimate terms – lying against their biology. When violence is turned on someone who then proceeds to conduct intimate sexual acts in this lie, it's not unexpected or unreasonable, since the affected party made neither the choice to change nor the choice to hide this fact – they are left only with being tricked into an intimate, vulnerable act. Because many are horrified and disgusted by the idea of even a kiss by the same gender, and more still by someone intentionally mutilating their sexual reproductive capability, the betrayal is compounded by disgust and horror – and the transgendered have the responsibility to disclose their state up front or suffer a strongly negative reaction from the "normal" population (based on raw number, more are horrified by this than consider it a desirable act, hence "normal" is defined by the cultural majority).


Karen   April 17th, 2009 11:18 am ET

When are people going to realize that in this society deceiving can cause horrible results. What Andrade did was not right, but if he didnt know, I can see a male's anger going overboard. He may not have meant to kill but this was the result. I believe he should be found guilty of manslaughter not first degree. If transgenders want to be more accepted, which they should be please start by being honest


Catherine   April 17th, 2009 11:18 am ET

I sincerely hope that justice is served in this case. I have a feeling that it could set a precedence for justice in hate crime cases towards GLBT citizens in the future.


Shawn   April 17th, 2009 11:19 am ET

You have to be kidding me. Murder is murder and should be punished as murder. Whatever the person's reasoning behinde murder (which can be almost anything) they should all be punished for the crime they committed plain and simple.


Furious   April 17th, 2009 11:21 am ET

"this is not a case about lifestyle and right or wrong; that it’s a case about Zapata’s deceit."

Really? So if I spend a weekend with a woman I just met and then find out she was married, it's ok if I beat her to death because she lied?

You've got to be kidding. I hope they give him life in prison.


Sheila D.   April 17th, 2009 11:21 am ET

Regarding the transgender trial, I think the defendant has a defense because Justin (angie) Zapata could have told the defendant up front when they were chatting online that he (she) was a transgender and then the defendant could have decided for himself whether he wanted to date someone who used to be a man. If Angie was truthful with the defendant she would most likely be alive today.


DP   April 17th, 2009 11:22 am ET

The transgendered need protection, especially when making their transition. This is a hate-motivated crime!


ANGELA   April 17th, 2009 11:22 am ET

I think no matter what your life styles is. It should be shared with anyone, you are interested in. This is only showing respect for yourself and the other person/or persons involved.

In other words, you can be playing with someone's emotions by not being honest with them.

Angie, was not proud of who he/or she was or this would not have ever happened.


Jennifer   April 17th, 2009 11:25 am ET

I think the defendant knew exactly what the victim was when he decided to spend the night with her , but didn't care at the time. It was later that he became ashamed and afraid of being labeled as Gay if anyone found out and so he killed Angie Vapata in cold blood .


John   April 17th, 2009 11:27 am ET

What a beautiful women/person she was. Who cares if wasn't a biological girl. This animal that murdered should decapitated.


Gwin   April 17th, 2009 11:27 am ET

This is a terrible situation. I can understand Justin wanting to be a girl in his/her complete self without prejudice, unfortunately though, when it comes to gender, only honesty up front is fair/right. It must be a horrible burden to not be able to be the self that makes you whole. To ask someone to love you for your whole self though does mean you must be honest about your circumstances-what makes you "you". I can also sympathize with the complex rage Zapata must have felt. Many men I know would have a "growing" difficultly, if not immediate rage, handling the news that they were unknowingly with someone who is/used to be a man. But even with that said, Murder is Murder, and I'm certain Zapata will be charged with what is appropriate.


R in Maine   April 17th, 2009 11:29 am ET

First degree murder with aggravating circumstances. There is no indication of regret, nor that the act will not be repeated.


Jackie   April 17th, 2009 11:31 am ET

I have seen men who have been decieved by transgenders and they were disgusted just by the look of my friends faces I new what they were going to tell me ......its not any differant then a pedifile or a rape . This is in the same deffense its a sex crime committed by transgenders . They should be held to the same standards we have a right to know if they or a man or woman.

Jackie


Chris   April 17th, 2009 11:32 am ET

Regardless of if he knew or not, he needs to go away for a long time. I'm still unsure why in a fit of passion our society believes it's fine to sentence someone to a lesser time. That does not excuse the behavior in the matter, and after seeing the video run down of the scene, it's fairly obvious that this was pre-meditated in MHO.

As far as this being a hte crime, I'm willing to believe it was, if he didn't realize her gender by the time the ticket was paid, his stupidity and lack of observance is NO excuse for murder of such a savage nature.

I think someone should be able to beat him the same way he beat her, but thats just my reaction at this moment. Death or life would be acceptable based on the ruling.

Thank you


Anthony   April 17th, 2009 11:33 am ET

I don't think it should be tried as a hate crime. He didn't target her/him because of his/her lifestyle. This falls in the 'crime of passion" category. I mean if you wanna get technical dude was basically raped. He was tricked and deceived into having intercourse with another man. So with that said, wouldn't that be self-defense?


Barbara McGowan   April 17th, 2009 11:33 am ET

He should be given the death penalty for this hate crime.


Jackie   April 17th, 2009 11:34 am ET

This is a sex crime committed by a transgender ...they shoiuld be held to sex crimes just like rapist or pediphiles its not a hate crime its a sex crime.

Jackie
NJ


Jason   April 17th, 2009 11:36 am ET

I am a 39 year old gay man. I have lived openly since I was 17 years old. I am always baffled as to why transgendered people can't be honest. I do not think that Allen should be charged with a hate crime. I can understand if she deceived him. Doesn't condone the fact that he killed Angie. I do believe that he should be found guilty of manslaughter. I hope this is an eye opener to all transgenders to always be open and upfront with anyone they plan on being intimate with.

Jason


MNgirl   April 17th, 2009 11:36 am ET

While it may be a fact that Zapata did lie to Andrade, killing someone because they lied to you is never justified! It doesn't matter what the circumstance, killing someone is wrong and you should pay for it. How many people out there have been lied to? Pretty much everyone but we choose to move on and let it go. You can know someone for years and years and never really know them. Personally I think if you think about killing someone even the minute before you do it it's premetitated. It was your choice to act on it.


babs   April 17th, 2009 11:37 am ET

Isn't a hate crime when you kill someone because of who they are? Duh. Zapata was under no obligation to tell anything. None of your business. Do we all have to devulge our sexualty to everyone we go on a date with?


Terron Brooks   April 17th, 2009 11:37 am ET

This case should definitely be tried as a hate-crime. It is obvious that he killed her because of her transgender lifestyle, pre-meditated or not, it was a crime committed through unacceptance. So what if her online profile said she was female. That's what she identified herself as, no matter what body parts she was born with. People need to be more accepting of people from all walks of life. This beautiful life was cut short at only 18 years because some man couldn't handle the fact that he was involved with someone who was transgendered. Parents need to help their children to be accepting of all people. We live in a society that should accept all. May justice be served, and may Angie rest in peace


Sky   April 17th, 2009 11:37 am ET

Murder is murder. Why does it matter if the person is transgender?


RFK   April 17th, 2009 11:38 am ET

So "deceit" is now a legal defense for murder? What kind of lawyer thought up that defense?


D in Chicago   April 17th, 2009 11:39 am ET

Send him for anger treatment only. She "he" deceived this man into having sex with another man, and he subsequently couldn't get over it and was filled with humiliation and rage.


LMK   April 17th, 2009 11:39 am ET

Murder is murder is murder. If he's guilty of first degree murder he should be sentenced accordingly.


Jeff Stevensen   April 17th, 2009 11:39 am ET

I seriously wonder what the intent of these laws is in light of cases like this. Should we legally treat a murderer who was sexually shamed by his victim as worse than any other murderer? Does this man pose more of a threat to me or anyone else than a man who shoots people for pocket change then uses it to buy drugs? What is the point of using our laws to place special interest-based spite on conventional crimes? A murderer is a murderer, the crime should be put on trial, not the motivation. What if he had the same motive but committed a mediocre crime such as a misdemeanor? Should he be jailed for Jay-Walking if he does it out of spite for a homosexual or surgically-disfigured homosexual? Our country is still a long ways from figuring out whether our justice system should be a means of promoting safety, revenge, or deterrants. These particular laws appear only to involve revenge. It makes us look as petty and as barbaric as the people we convict, very sad.


D.Ysasi   April 17th, 2009 11:40 am ET

This man reacted to the situation Zapata put him in, I do not believe he intended to kill this man/woman. My prayers are with the victim and her/his family, although I also believe Mr. Andrade was and is a victim himself...........Good Luck Mr. Andrade!!!


Same Old White House   April 17th, 2009 11:40 am ET

First if this person is biologically a male then he should be referred to as a he not a she. Second if the victim tried to conceal that he was a male is deception and while murder is murder the victim should share some of the responsibility.


Dan in Colorado   April 17th, 2009 11:40 am ET

This is not first degree murder. The victim violated the defendant by concealing the fact that he was a biological male. A heterosexual male does not want oral sex from another male. His rage is understandable, even though the killing is clearly wrong.


Dave Ocame   April 17th, 2009 11:41 am ET

`Usually people who have gone through gender reassignment have been through a lot of reflection and counseling. I know a few, though I am not one myself. They all say that anyone who has gone to that trouble wants no more problems and will normally be forthcoming about the truth. So, I contend that Andrade knew about Anglie's gender status long before they met in person. That makes this whole thing even more agregious in that Andrade had Angie drive 50 miles to pick up her own murderer. I say 1st degree premeditated murder and a needle in the arm for Andrade.


Ariel Andrews   April 17th, 2009 11:43 am ET

This is horrible. I get the whole anger thing, but WALK AWAY. Is it worth killing a person over? Spending the rest of your life in jail.

And really, did he not let his hand stray during the night to her private area? He knew. Maybe not beforehand, but afterward and before he made the decision to kill. Send him away. Gen pop. I also think Beth Karas is great and respectful of the victim. She has a facebook fan page now too.


JJ   April 17th, 2009 11:43 am ET

How did they spend the rest of July 15 and July 16? What sort of networking sight did they use to communicate? What did the profile of the murdered victim look like? Have they interviewed the past significant others of both parties? If it is proven that the victim was open to telling other partners or had put her transgendered lifestyle in her profile, then this was premeditated. What if the defendent has a history of violence against partners? Where was he during the traffic court procedings- was him in the court room listening to the names called from the docket? This article poses more questions than answers and I'm interested in how it turns out. Especially what the couple was doing July 16.


Gail   April 17th, 2009 11:43 am ET

I can understand the complexity of emotion that must have occurred, but nothing justifies murder, no matter how embarrassed or angry you may be.


Bear   April 17th, 2009 11:44 am ET

Too bad Allen Andrade was so insecure with his masculinity that when he found out that Angie was still biologically a male that he couldn’t do the right thing and tell Angie he was no longer interested. Instead he killed her 36 hours later and then blamed Angie because she deceived him.


Gail   April 17th, 2009 11:45 am ET

Deceit doesn't justify murder! For heaven's sake. These attorneys are really stretching it.


Karen   April 17th, 2009 11:46 am ET

Life is life. No one has the right to take another's.

He should be punished based on premeditated murder, period. The death penalty is acceptable.


alice   April 17th, 2009 11:46 am ET

There is no aggravating circumstances. He was not killed because he was transgendered. He was not sought out and murdered for simple being transgendered. This was not a gay bashing outside of a gay bar. He was killed because he lied and deceived the person he was with which caused psychological stress and rage in that person. If he would have been up front right away before they met then the two of them never would have met and it would have ended before it began. I know many men who would be extremely disgusted with themselves if it was them in this situation, thinking they're dating/touching/kissing a woman and find out that it is a man. The whole situation could have been avoided. I disagree that it is a hate crime.


Mike   April 17th, 2009 11:49 am ET

He didnt have this coming to him but he set himself up to trick to go out with him. There are many people that believe that an operation does not change your gender. In addition, if a person believe that homosexuality is a sin or that homosexuality is gross or whatever, when a transgender person tricks another that can only enrage a person. I am not saying that Justin had what was coming to him, he did not deserve to be killed, but what tricking a person to have sexual acts should be considered a form of rape.


Missy in Alabama   April 17th, 2009 11:49 am ET

This victim chose to gamble with his life and deceive the defendant. The defendant I'm sure felt like this was the ultimate deception he could ever encounter as a man and emotionaly could not handle it. The victim should have been honest about himself upon the first implication of any romantic involment with the defendant or any other male he intended to be involved with. Surgery or no surgery, he was still a man.


Stacy from Leesburg, VA   April 17th, 2009 11:49 am ET

I feel so badly for this young lady and her family. I am not blaming her for this, but this should serve as an example to all transgender women out there that before any contact is made with a prospective gentleman, you should mention that you are transgendered because you can put yourselves into some dangerous spots. He should be given the electric chair in my opinion, he could have easily walked away but he chose to kill her. Let him live (albeit shortly) with the consequences.


Matt   April 17th, 2009 11:49 am ET

This is no hate crime. This is how do I live myself after investing romantically and emotionally in a woman who is not really a woman. This is deceit plain and simple and while the defendant should do time, this trial should be a deterrent to those who would misrepresent their gender/sex. Gross.


GospelTruth   April 17th, 2009 11:51 am ET

Live and let live. Judge not and you will not be judged.


Jeanette Herron   April 17th, 2009 11:52 am ET

God in Heaven loves us regardless of how our bodies look. These are both Gods Children and my tears are for both of them. I pray that Angie will be in Heaven and Allen will find the true love of Jesus and repent of this horriffic crime. May both of these souls rest in peace. Love of God is the true answer to this worlds pain.


Terron Brooks   April 17th, 2009 11:52 am ET

Haha... Sorry Jackie, I just found your post humorous. So you are saying that she should have been held accountable for a sex-crime? As if she raped him? Wow... No matter what happened intimately between the two of them, I'm sure she didn't force him to do so. No matter the level of deception that took place, deceit is NOT an acceptable argument to justify murder. How often do people "deceive" others by their supposed weight, height, hair color, taste in music, etc... , not many people are 100% honest about themselves compared to the way they present themselves to society.


jerry   April 17th, 2009 11:52 am ET

What is wrong with society where a so called "straight man" can sleep with a transgendered or gay person and then claim I was mislead, blah, blah. so I will kill you in cold blood and use that stupid defense " I didn't know it was a boy"? What the??? We men have so many false insecurities to live up to, that our society actually perpetuates these mindless notions.
The kicker about all of this....... it is so much in black or white. You killed a living breathing person, after you had sex with them, if it bothered you that much, you should have backed away from the situation! enough said. You/He needs to pay the consequences.

You took another innocent life.
Absolutely a shame!


Mr P   April 17th, 2009 11:52 am ET

If Zapata didn't want to hide the fact he was really a male, then Zapata would not have assumed the name Angie. I'm sure there was deceit on Zapata's part during the start of the relationship, and probably up to the point where Zapata was murdered. I'm sure most men if not all men would have a negative reaction if they found out that a woman (that appears to be a woman) that they developed feelings for, was in fact a male.

Murder is Murder, but I do not think this was a premeditated murder. I think the violence was out of rage when Andrade found the "news", and it got out of hand which resulted in a death.


mel   April 17th, 2009 11:53 am ET

So if a straight man lies to a straight woman and says he loves her to get her to have sex with him, is she entitled to lesser charges if she shoots him in the head afterwards?

If a straight woman lies to a man and says she's pregnant with his child to keep him around, is he entitled to lesser charges if he strangles her when he finds out she never had a child?

Does lying to someone under these pretenses for sexual favors make one a sex offender the same as this?


Carol   April 17th, 2009 11:53 am ET

Another senseless murder that is helped along by not having proper protection for Hate Crimes on LGBT. Our country and every state in it should be ashamed to refuse this protection.


bumatl   April 17th, 2009 11:53 am ET

Someone said: "If Angie was truthful with the defendant she would most likely be alive today."

And my response to this and anyone who wants to make any kind of argument that the defendant's actions were justifiable or understandable– killing someone isn't excusable. I don't care if Angie was truthful or not. If the defendant wasn't some psycho with an apparent inability to know right from wrong, Angie would most likely be alive today. Period.


T   April 17th, 2009 11:53 am ET

my view here is this is a pretty simple case and won't likely set any precedent. the defense should be able to successfully claim that the defendant didn't know he was dealing with a woman, based on the physical appearance of the victim. the victim is passable.

However, if the defendant was physically present the 15th when the victim was reviewed for a Traffic ticket, the defense can still claim that the defendant did not know that the traffic ticket in question was the victims.

If I were the defense attorney I would seek testimony from those in court on the 15th – simply ask them to testify if the defendant behaved as if the person he was with, was a man – or a woman, and whether or not they themselves believed the victim was a man or a woman, and so on. The defense needs to strengthen their case that the defendant didn't know he was dealing with the crying game here

spending a few days with someone doesn't necessarily entail that person knew the gender of the person. so the prosecution can't argue without dna evidence the defense knew gender just on basis of spending time with them. but the prosecution will fail if they can't establish the defense knew with a high degree of certainty that the victim was male aforehand. they have the advantage in this case
because there are thiings like adam's apples, and so on – that give the picture away.

otherwise. meh. its open and shut. the defense has already plead guilty. its a murder. the sentencing should be relatively easy if it were not for that one detail.

We shall see, said the blind man..


Naomi   April 17th, 2009 11:54 am ET

I do not know if I read this right, but the officer wrote a ticket out to Justin even though Justin had become Angie and that is when the suspect figured it out? Not trying to place any sort of blame on that officer but there could have been a bit more discretion in that situation. I mean wouldn't it not raise flags that you are giving a ticket to a woman with a mans name, perhaps he could have taken her aside or something. Like I said not trying to blame the officer for the horrible actions taken by Andrade, just trying to point out that maybe if people were a little more sensitive to other people's situations incidents like this could be avoided. With that said, it is 100% Andrade's fault for this horrible crime against this poor soul. Personally I don't think he should get any leeway, especially sense he had a long time to calm down and think about it. Also if he was still in a rage at that point, that many hours later, he should be behind bars any way because any one with that much rage is not safe to be in normal society. He could have turned around went home by what ever means necessarily and just never talked with her again. ... Ya this man needs to be behind bars at the very least for the rest of his life.


Kimberly May   April 17th, 2009 11:55 am ET

Alice... the correct pronoun is SHE ! Also, being disgusted and clubbing someone to death should be kept seperate. It is better to be disgusted and non-violent.... than disgusted and psychopathic.
Angie did not deserve to die for being different. No one does.
SHE...Angie... is an innocent victim of a terrible HATE CRIME !
Do NOT try to sugar coat this aweful crime.
People can hate what they want to hate. Just keep your hate from escalating to MURDER ! duh.

kim


Chris   April 17th, 2009 11:55 am ET

Oddly I'm begining to see alot of arguement in this matter that seems to side with the defense. I was unaware that because someone may have not been entirely honest with you on something, murder is justified. I will have to adjust myself as such -.-

Murder is Muder, and at least in death we can give her the respect of being referred to as a female. She never made it to SRS, and never will now thanks to this monster.

Many may be horrified as a poster said, but that kind of reaction shows that society is still teaching us that different people, be they minorities, different sexual orientations, or classes based on money, are less then them. He shows no remorse, no regret, and he seems proud in what pictures I've seen. If this is what we're teaching children to be: hate mongering intolerate and knee jerk, what hope is there for the future?

Regardless, murder is murder, the very idea they are trying to say he was justified and deserve less time is sickening.

Regards.


Portia   April 17th, 2009 11:55 am ET

Why is this man being called "she" and "her"? He's a male, and should be referred to as such. Simply calling yourself a woman doesn't make it so!


Lisa- Columbus Ohio   April 17th, 2009 11:55 am ET

angela Though I agree with your statement. Truth is key in relationships.
I'm sure your bright enough to see that this case is a clear example why just telling someone the "truth" aided in their death.
Another thing needing to reconize is as a transgender person they are only being their trueself so it is the truth when she said I'm all woman..

Anywho! Telling someone the truth or no doesn't equal someone having the right to beat someone to death. With Anger like that he would have killed her whenever he found out.


Lori   April 17th, 2009 11:56 am ET

How can the defense use the excuse that Angie was being deceptive by not openly telling everyone she was a male...she was transgender and was living her life openly as she saw herself which was female.
Andrade is the only one with a secret, he had relations with Angie. Had to have know her sex, was afraid of his feelings and how his actions would play out in his life.


Mona Wi   April 17th, 2009 11:56 am ET

The defense lawyer said that Andrade snapped and killed her and ran out of the apartment. He must have been running in slow motion to gather up her purses the debit card and car keys,


Suzanne   April 17th, 2009 11:57 am ET

What a horrible situation.

As a straight woman who has recently found out her husband is not only gay but has been cheating for YEARS with guys, I can completely relate to feeling anger and pain at this kind of deceit. Yes, Angie is beautiful and probably was a very nice person, but she should have been forthright and honest when it became apparent that they were going to meet.

On the other side of the coin, though, anyone that believes anything a stranger tells them online should have their head examined! People looking for love online need to know what they could potentially be getting into – and in this day and age, it's "anything goes," for sure.

No matter how you slice it, though, none of this should have ended in a murder.

Condolences and prayers to Angie's family and friends.


Michael   April 17th, 2009 11:57 am ET

The defense admits culpability, they're trying to lessen the charge. Deceit isn't a defense, but provocation does go to whether the crime is premeditated or un-premeditated, hence it's a very important consideration in first vs second degree.

Treating this as a hate crime is, unfortunately, ludicrous, and is really just an attempt to secure a greater sentence for this individual killer. True equality would demand that the State treat this man as we would any nutcase who had acted with violence towards a woman who had divulged a piece of (to him) disturbing sexual history. The act is abhorrent, but unless its part of a larger pattern it really should be held to the exact same standard whether Ms. Zapata was a biological female or not.


ew now thats nasty   April 17th, 2009 11:57 am ET

Don't surprise me with a shocker like that. I wouldn't know my re action


Kimberly May   April 17th, 2009 11:59 am ET

The correct pronouns are SHE and her...for this victim.

Using the term IT ...is an insult to any trans person.

Using the term HE or him is an insult to this particular victim.


Angela   April 17th, 2009 12:00 pm ET

Thank you for using the correct gender through the article.

I certainly don't condone misleading someone or lying to them, but it happens all the time with online dating – it is NO justificaiton for killing someone.


Christopher Daley   April 17th, 2009 12:00 pm ET

Beth -

in 2004 and 2006, the Alameda County District Attorney charged three of the four men later found guilty of killing transgender teen Gwen Araujo with hate crimes under California's hate crime law.

Best,

Chris


VI   April 17th, 2009 12:00 pm ET

It's always interesting to hear people say what they would/wouldn't do in a situation. Some people handle their anger/tempers and some people cannot, based on the circumstances. How do you know you wouldn't have reacted the same if you were in this situation? If it were you, you would want the jury of your peers to look at their beliefs and what they would do. Justin/Angie should have been upfront and told Allen he was transgendered – plain and simple. He was not "all woman" as he claimed to be, if he still possessed male parts. This is not a hate crime, but it is a clear case of murder.


sixtoesgirl   April 17th, 2009 12:01 pm ET

Isn't every act of murder a "hate" crime?


CJ   April 17th, 2009 12:01 pm ET

This was not rape! This was not a date at the movies. This was an online hookup! This man met Angie online with the intent to have sex. Went 50 miles to do so. They had sex over a 2 day period. I believe he knew very well that she was transgender. I believe he is making this story up now to save face during his trial. This is very similar to a killer that kills a prostitute. The person's lifestyle doesnt justify them being killed. This man should be sentenced to life for killing a human being.


MJ   April 17th, 2009 12:01 pm ET

This entire situation stinks. Where can one even begin? People are so quick to "hook up" with folks off the internet, then are enraged when the person is not who they appear to be. Obviously someone who is willing to drive 50 miles to pick up a total stranger is in need of counseling. Then we have the defendant who claims he didn't know this was a transgendered female at first. O K. Fast forward, what we have is a cold blooded murder. As far as the charge, unfortunately this is not a hate crime. The defendant did not seek this person out and intentionally murder her because she was a transgender. He was deceived and lied to and had sexual contact with a person under false pretenses. Does that deserve murder? Of course not, but that would inspire uncontrolled rage in a person and therefore involuntary manslaughter.


Matt   April 17th, 2009 12:02 pm ET

XY Chromosomes don't lie. This person was a man and should be called such, no matter what he preferred to refer to himself as in life.

A murder this brutal is a horrible thing and should be prosecuted as such. The perpetuator seems very much guilty of second-degree murder. That being said, had Justin revealed he was a male before performing oral sex on the deranged psycopath, well he would probrably still be alive today.


Gender Bender   April 17th, 2009 12:02 pm ET

FEMALE / MALE = the sex you are born with

WOMAN / MAN = a state of mind, appearance

Angie was "a woman trapped in a male body."


Kimberly May   April 17th, 2009 12:02 pm ET

portia... its called RESPECT...for the transgendered. That is why the pronoun is SHE. People who are bron with this condition do NOT ask for this condition. It is a biogical anomoly...not a choice.
kim


Bekah   April 17th, 2009 12:03 pm ET

The people here saying this is the transgendered person's fault b/c she lied, let me ask you something...if your partner lied to you, does that mean you can kill them? No? Then what the hell is the difference here?

You disgusting, biased commentators would probably let this man walk b/c you can't agree with the transgendered lifestyle, and that's the saddest thing of all here.


lidia barron   April 17th, 2009 12:03 pm ET

I think its not a hate crime, this person was truthful to herself but not to the men that she was having oral sex with.You cannot compare lying to you about marrige or race u can live with that. But lying about your gender is, because he thought he was being with a girl and just got oral sex then to find out it was a guy, he felt betrayed and gross that he snapped.justin should have told him up front that she was transgender.


PAMS   April 17th, 2009 12:03 pm ET

Murder is murder but you have to understand the anger this man must have felt when the truth was revealed. This should not have resulted in murder but this is deceit. Why is ok to lie about your gender especially when you know the persons sexual preferences?The victim was legally a man (had male reproductive organs)...posing a a female. This is a case of blind rage... How would you react in the same position? Again, murder was not the answer but you can understand the utmost anger felt.


Mary   April 17th, 2009 12:03 pm ET

I can not believe people here are justifying murder. He BEAT someone to death. He could have left. He could have keyed her car. He could have plastered posters of her all over her neighborhood, harrassed her on the internet,...a million other ways to show his contempt that did not include BEATING SOMEONE TO DEATH. There is NOTHING that she could have done to justify being murdered. I fear for our society when I read people's respnses here.


David   April 17th, 2009 12:04 pm ET

Wow, If it was a surprise you cant put the guy away for 1st degree. I cant say I wouldnt seriously harm someone in that situation.


James   April 17th, 2009 12:06 pm ET

How can anyone say they "see how his anger could go overboard"...like its exceptable. I have followed this since the day it happened since it was right up the road from me. He beat her/him (doesn't matter) to death with a fire extinguisher...bludgeoned this person over the head until they died. But you "see how his anger could go overboard"? Really?? Not only that, but then he stole Zapata's car and drove it home. The guy should fry...I just hope they convict him before the death penalty is knocked down here in Colorado. Should Zapata had hid his identity? No...but does that deserve physical violence in any form? No it doesn't. And if someone can tell me how they can identify with someones who let their anger get to the point of bashing someone's head in with a fire extinguisher you need to go get checked out.


rachae   April 17th, 2009 12:06 pm ET

He should be charged with murder and not a hate crime. He wasn't out looking for a transsexual to kill.


Tom   April 17th, 2009 12:06 pm ET

This is the worst kind of deceit. I think the real crime here is the fact that this poor guy has to suffer with knowing he was intimate with another male. He was the REAL victim. What did this he/she think was going to happen? All this political correctness is sickening. He should be sentenced to a lighter sentence and the dead guys family should have to pay for his counseling for the rest of his life.


Mike   April 17th, 2009 12:06 pm ET

This is 1st degree murder. Why are we even discussing the hate crime aspect? This transgender person was killed because of her deceit, but that doesn't mitigate the fact that the defendant killed him/her after thinking about it, planning it, and trying to get away with it. The "cause" of the defendant's choice to kill him/her doesn't matter with it's a hate crime or not ... it's premeditated.

We could spend hours, days or years discussing what was wrong or how badly wrong Angie/Justin's actions were. But in the end, he/she was killed by a premeditated act. 1st degree murder, put Andrade in jail for life, and move on.

In my opinion, the prosecution focusing on a hate crime aspect of this actually dismisses the seriousness of the crime. The gender, or concealment of gender, doesn't justify or mitigate premeditated murder. 2nd degree murder, we could discuss. 1st degree murder, I don't understand how this is even an issue.


Boom   April 17th, 2009 12:08 pm ET

Lies and decieit do not condone murder. I thorougly agree w/ Bear's post...the killer was just blown away that a MAN had performed oral sex on him. OH MI GAWD! People will say I'm GAY now!! Jeez. Well, now that I'm sure he's going away to prison for a long, long time, the only sex he WILL be having is w/ men. There is no defense for the killing he did. I owe no one an explanation as to my background, my heritage, my sexuality, nothing. He should've just sucked it up and walked away. It may have been the morally correct thing to do (inform the man of his true gender) just like it is morally correct to inform one if they're infected w/ HIV. But not all people do that...you have to protect yourself, not rely on what your partner does/does not tell you. Same thing w/ this scenario...it didn't pan out so, he should've walked away.


offfwhite   April 17th, 2009 12:09 pm ET

First, a little lesson in queer/sexuality theory.... "gender" is not biological, it is social. It involves the way we dress, speak, and conduct ourselves. In the majority of us, our biological/genetic sex and our gender agree. But for those whose genetic expression and gender expression do not meet 1:1, our society makes life difficult. Anyone who has not experienced it could not possibly understand what it's like, and should consider this when passing judgment.

There are a lot of people here passing a lot of judgment about Angie's obligation to be honest. She lived in a world where honesty on this topic was frequently met with hostility, prejudice and violence.... to suggest that she is obligated to subject herself to society's ire to save others' discomfort is beyond ignorant.

This is a hate crime because it was motivated by hatred towards her gender non-conformity. I welcome any opportunity the law takes to acknowledge this.


Kay   April 17th, 2009 12:09 pm ET

The gender identity of the victim should not interfere with the pursuit of justice in her death. Honestly, if it were a couple where the man had found out 36 hours before the murder that his girlfriend was cheating on him, he would undoubtedly be found guilty of premeditated murder.

Further, this does qualify as a hate crime because she was murdered because of her gender identity (i.e., while she was born biologically male, she identifies as female. Sex is a biological trait- gender is not). We could make an appropriate comparison between Zapata and myself. I am a multiracial woman but it is not readily obvious that I am half Asian-American. Then imagine a similar situation. Say I were involved with a man who, after some time, discovered the fact that my mother is from Vietnam. He then attacked me because he did not believe interracial couples should be allowed to date and assumed that I had been intentionally dishonest with him. Again, in this circumstance, the man would be painted as a bigot and white supremacist. Again, he would undoubtedly be charged as guilty for a hate crime in this case.

Whether she was being dishonest with Andrade to begin with, that only Andrade and God know but this was not "involuntary" manslaughter or an unbasised act of violence. Rather, it was a deliberate act of violence, intent on hurting Zapata because she is transgendered.


Steve   April 17th, 2009 12:09 pm ET

This is not a hate crime. Although i do support the struggle for equality for gays/transgender etc.. They knew each other previously so this was a crime against the person not a group of peoples. It also appeared that she deceived him. That is one of the things you need to be up front with when meeting potential partners. Although that does not take away from how awful this crime was murder is murder, just dont call it a hate crime im sick of everytime someone gives a gay guy or a black a guy a dirty look its a hate crime.


Boogie Booginacious   April 17th, 2009 12:09 pm ET

Regardless of whether she deceived him or if he knew, 36 hours past between the time they parted company and he went back to kill her. That constitutes planning. I'm sure he - on some level - was angry that "she" had once been a he, but saying that his behavior was even remotely understandable or excusable and should warrant a lesser sentence is crap.

The only time deceit in connection with some sort of sexual relationship should affect a person's sentence in a murder case is when an individual has HIV or AIDS, knows same, and doesn't disclose or otherwise protect the person with whom he/she is sharing the relationship. The reason is that AIDS/HIV has life-long implications. This moron that killed this transgendered individual planned to take someone's life because of his own moral values. The only legitimate strategy for a reduction in his sentence would be if he saw "her" penis, freaked out and attacked her. That didn't happen.

I'd vote for first degree murder. Once he hits prison he'll have plenty of opportunity to experience sex with men without the cloud of not knowing they're men.


Average Dude   April 17th, 2009 12:09 pm ET

Murder is murder is murder – period!

If it's not used as last resort for self defense, then there is no excuse for it – ever.


Caleb   April 17th, 2009 12:09 pm ET

I feel for the accused..I'd vote not guilty on all charges..that thing was asking for it. HE got what HE deserved for pretending to be a girl. Whats up with this site calling him her???


Ken   April 17th, 2009 12:09 pm ET

I think the first degree charge should stick. The guy had 36 hours to cool down, but instead of cooling down, he played along until he got a good opportunity to bludgeon someone to death. Aside from that, he needs to be in jail for the rest of his life. He has openly stated that he believes "all gay things need to die"... the guy is clearly an unmitigatable danger to society, and should be removed from it. The guy used his 36 hours to plan and execute a brutal murder, and from his statements, we can ascertain that he executed said murder in the furtherance of a goal of intimidating an entire group of people. It's easy to get mired in what pronouns to use, or a "blame the victim" mentality... but the harsh reality is that this guy planned a heinous crime, then executed it, and has stated his belief that crimes like it should be repeated.


ed   April 17th, 2009 12:09 pm ET

the defendant beat justin to death he didnt shoot or stab him. i would have done the same thing we need laws to prevent gays from doing this to people. society thinks homosexualty is ok that dont make it not a sin. approval is a JUDGEMENT as well as saying its wrong and sick.


Matt   April 17th, 2009 12:11 pm ET

People are going to commit murder. Murders happen in cases where someone gets distraught or distressed beyond what they can handle, especially if the most recent "last straw event" is viewed as an extension of a troubled history. One possible instance of that here would be if the defendant has had trouble finding women willing to date him and then he thinks he hits the jackpot with what appears to be a beautiful woman (who turned out to be male). The discovery could have been so gut-wrenchingly unsettling as to unhinge him. But that has NOTHING to do with transgendered population any more than it does with her status as a consumer of a particular brand of shoes.


Victoria   April 17th, 2009 12:11 pm ET

The article says "she" and "her" because it is the journalistic practice to identify a person based on the gender they identify as. Journalism school teaches this. And common decency should as well.


Naomi   April 17th, 2009 12:11 pm ET

To Furious:

VERY WELL put, I could not agree more with what you are saying. Just because she was a transgender people take it out of perspective and are trying to give this suspect a break. But Murder is Murder and as I said earlier he had plenty of time to take other actions rather than killing this woman.

To All the people trying to blame this on Angie, how hypocritical is that? When a "normal" girl is murdered there is absolutely no blame put on her. Even if she is the most seductive tease, or absolute rude woman you have meet. No matter how much a "normal" girl would egg on a potential kill her, its NEVER her fault. YET just because this girl used to be a guy and had not disclosed this fact yet, for what ever reason, you are trying to place blame on her. How shameful.


Pat McCabe   April 17th, 2009 12:13 pm ET

The term "hate crime" is BS. If you murder someone you obviously hate them... regardless of the reason you hate them.

I hate the term hate crime.


Bill   April 17th, 2009 12:14 pm ET

This is a hate crime period.

What if it was her race she was hiding. Would anyone call that anything but a hate crime?

The transgendered are the most discriminated group of people in this country.

We should reference their gender by what they are in their heart.

We all start as female and about 50 percent become male. There is a small percentage that are in the middle. There is nothing wrong with this diversity in nature.


sam kelly   April 17th, 2009 12:14 pm ET

In the article, did it not say they spent several nights together before the murder ? and he didnt know ? Now adays who spends the night without the benefit of intimacy ? I think, it felt good till the guilt set in.....
perhaps the ony hate was the self loathing the killer felt, 1st degree murder is what it amounts to but youll never see that verdict.


Angie   April 17th, 2009 12:14 pm ET

The people trying to turn this into a semantics debate about gendered terminology are only help bolster the bogus defense of the accused.

You don't get to kill people because they lie to you.


liz   April 17th, 2009 12:14 pm ET

she wants to be a women she should be called she and her!!!


Walt Wentz   April 17th, 2009 12:15 pm ET

What we seem to lose sight of is that people are not logical about such deep instinct-driven impulses as sex and identity. In this case, these deep impulses collided. IF the defendant was in fact completely surprised by his sudden discovery of Zapata's biological identity–AFTER repeated sexual contacts– then his own sexual identity, his personal concept of "self," was endangered at that instant. The instinctive alpha-ape response would be blind rage and aggression. In that case, there would be nothing premeditated or even "bigoted" about it– it would be an unthinking crime of passion, pure and simple. Although you may cage a dangerous animal, you don't kill it just because it responds like an animal under extreme stress.
However, all this debate is just speculation, because we don't really know the essential facts in the case– such as who knew what and when– so we'll just have to see what comes out in a court of law.


Jen   April 17th, 2009 12:15 pm ET

This is disgusting! What did this boy/girl expect?! You CANT go around acting like you are not what you are. The fact is that homophobia is real and does exist. It is wrong for someone to act like a woman and try to be with a heterosexual male! Most men and people would react to this situation as someone would if their child was killed! I think it's wrong that society let's transgenders think it's ok to live like this. They put heterosexual people in a terrible situation and jeopordize their own lives. If you want to be a freak, go ahead, but be honest about it. He should not go to jail!


Bobbie V   April 17th, 2009 12:16 pm ET

I am a trans person and being transgendered is more about how our body is programmed in one gender role and conversely how our brains are programmed in the opposite gender role. identify ourselves within a gender role and not entirely about sex. More importantly its also about the struggle of surviving in the chosen role and dealing with the lack of understanding found n society in general. Sometime back Atena insurance did a press release on how they recognized this to be a true medical issue and not a lifestyle issue. in some cases people fear or hate what they do not understand...
So having said that; regardless the issue of deceit, this man killed Angie because of his reaction to the truth and his act of murder was based on hatred to that truth as represented in Angie a trans-person. Ergo -hate crime


Beth   April 17th, 2009 12:16 pm ET

yes, she lied to him at first. my god people get over that. normal, sane people walk away. He had time to think about how he had been deceived and planned out the murder. He killed her after he found out she was TG and had quite a bit of time to cool off and walk away. but, no...this evil caveman committed homicide. this is cut and dry, if the facts are accurate thus far, he pre-meditated this act and it should also be charged as a hate crime. TG's should not lie or deceive people, but my god....why are some men so driven to such extreme violence and evilness? and you men who are focusing so much on her lie that you somehow feel for this maniac?? how insecure can you be!?? talk about homophobia...it's depressing.


Sanford Abernethy   April 17th, 2009 12:16 pm ET

Haha. Are they honestly trying to play this as gay panic in the 21st century?


Steve   April 17th, 2009 12:16 pm ET

I'm surprised (perhaps I shouldn't be) by all the people saying that she should be referred to as a he. She's had operations and lives her life as a female so she should be considered a female. There are medical cases where proteins aren't activated on the Y chromosome and biological males live there life believing they have two X chromosomes. Should they be referred to as he after they realize (which may be well into there life)?

It's not like I'm saying you should call someone who is biologically Italian Irish if they want to be Irish and live like an Irish, because there are no biological/genetic reasons why that might happen. If someone has the genetic/biological makeup to have a female persona but was born with an Y, they should be referred to as she.

This is just another example of people hating someone or something because they are different and can't understand how or why they'd want to live like that. We need to stop being arrogant and realize we are all ignorant of things and to check ourselves before we jump to conclusions.


brian   April 17th, 2009 12:17 pm ET

racist?! you guys are ridiculous. Transgender is not a race.
The guy's a murderer. He's sick. The issue is what set off this ticking time bomb of a phsycopath. It may just turn out that he though he was with a woman, and when it turned out to be a guy.... he flipped out!! If someone is tricked or fooled into doing something that they didn't want to do, then its understandable they'd be upset. When you do it to a homocidal maniac.... chances are you might get killed. The guy deserves to go away for life but don't use this as a soap box for gay rights.

If you want to be transgender... thats a tough path to choose but its your right to choose it (whether you feel its a choice or not). Live responsibly and don't "suprise" people with your member. Honestly is the best policy even if you're a dude in a dress.


L   April 17th, 2009 12:20 pm ET

its's sad a life was taken!! very said but sitll not a hate crime


simian   April 17th, 2009 12:20 pm ET

I'm watching this trial right now, and as the family member of a murder victim I think we should wait until all the facts are presented in court before we decide if this is a hate crime or even if this man is guilty. Howver, I thinkit is just aweful that the victim is referred to as a "she" when obviously it's DNA states that it is a man. No one deserves to die at the hands of another but respect the women and call the victim what it is, a man in women's clothing.


David   April 17th, 2009 12:21 pm ET

Wow. Just... wow. I never thought I'd EVER see the level of stupidity displayed in these comments.

"Hey, I'm disgusted by someone! The obvious solution is to TAKE THEIR LIFE BY BEATING THEM TO DEATH WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER!" Are you SERIOUS?!!!

Guess what: I've hooked up into casual relations with people before, only to find out that they are a religion I don't approve of, or even have extreme sexual proclivities that disgust me. Do you know what I did? I POLITELY LEFT AND NEVER CALLED THEM AGAIN!!! How anybody can even BEGIN to justify the taking of a human life with, "Well, she lied about who she was to him," baffles me. What you do in that situation is call HER a vulgar name, tell her some unpleasant things she can do to herself, and you leave.

What is wrong with you people?


FRANCO   April 17th, 2009 12:21 pm ET

For God's sake, Andrade is a 32 yrs old man and people believes that he was lied to. I don't believe it. I am sure that he knew what he was doing.
Everyone that has been blaming Angie for lying to Andrade, I wonder if they ever ever met a transgender person? There will be always signs that will make you suspicious.


steve   April 17th, 2009 12:21 pm ET

Murder IS a hate crime. Why do we try to differentiate degrees of hate? Try him as a murderer. Sure he got lied to, but last time I was lied to I don't remember bludgeoning the liar. I can understand being upset... I can understand rage... I wouldn't blame the dude if he gave Angie a swift kick, but this was murder.


Christina Lloyd   April 17th, 2009 12:23 pm ET

Even though people may be different from us, that doesn't give us a reason to just murder them out of rage. Well, we shouldn't murder people in the first place, but that certaintly shouldn't be a excussable reason. I feel for the family and I hope everything goes the way it should-- him in jail for a long time!!!!!!!!!!!


Stop blaming the rape victim   April 17th, 2009 12:25 pm ET

You people saying hang the straight white guy need to Stop blaming the guy that was raped.

Yes by the laws definition any unwanted sexual contact or situation can be defined as a degree of rape.

This guy was lied to and abused multiple times for weeks to months. At best this is a MANslaughter case. There was no woman involved.


Pedro   April 17th, 2009 12:25 pm ET

Andrade was RAPED by Zapata. The transgendered should be punished, by law, for not informing their potential intimate partners before they are intimate. The laws should be changed to reflect this.

I in no way condone murder and Andrade should be punished, but this is no way a hate crime.

If HE (Zapata) would have informed Andrade, before they were intimate, then HE (Zapata) would most likely still be alive because Andrade would have made an informed decision.


SSG Andrew Thor   April 17th, 2009 12:25 pm ET

In response to the question about prevention of hate crimes, I don't really think there is a way to prevent them. Hate crimes are committed by people who have been raised or trained in thinking that they are in someway superior to those they target. Society can't do anything to prevent that. Providing "sensativity training" or information classes on different minority groups or targeted groups will only help those who attend them with an open mind.

In the case of the transgender murder trial, I don't honestly believe this constitutes a "hate crime". Ms. Zapata was not targeted because she was transgendered. She was assaulted and murdered because of the romantic situation in which she found herself and that her partner was not aware of her gender.

Please don't misunderstand my viewpoint, I believe that Mr. Andrade did a terrible thing and that he should be convicted of Murder in the 1st Degree, but I don't believe that this is considered a hate crime.


Debbie   April 17th, 2009 12:26 pm ET

I am married to a transgender and there is more fear in them than most people realize. This case really cannot be considered a hate crime since the gender identity was never discussed. But at the same time it was a brutal murder and should be tried as such. This man deserves to spend the rest of his life behind bars, no questions asked. But I do agree that anyone who starts a relationship should be upfront from the beginning. In this case, do we really know that they had sexual contact? It was not stated in the article, we are assuming it. Transgender people are looking for acceptance for who they are and I think they should be accepted but if they are pre surgery then that should be divulged before any long term or intimate relationship begins. Bottom line is...there is no reason (other than self defense) that warrants murder.


Blake   April 17th, 2009 12:26 pm ET

This is clearly murder. However, I think misrepresenting one's true gender to a sexual partner should be considered a crime similar to rape. I actually met a gay man that got a huge thrill out of dressing as a woman, picking up heterosexual men, performing oral sex on them, and then revealing his true sex. He said that he always reveals his true sex in public to avoid violence, and he prefers to do it in front of his victim's friends because it adds to the humiliation. I think most people would consider that behavior highly immoral, and I think we should pass laws accordingly.


jeannie   April 17th, 2009 12:26 pm ET

through out history many people have been mudered for various reasons a murder is just that. I do believe that if we were to analyze murders overall , is it not that one feels hate for something in order to kill someone.Think about it, every crime should be a hate crime.
I do not believe that people are born gay I believe it is an inbalance of the hormones from an early age, after all is it not true that people take hormones to change thier gender and if I had a sexual relationship with a transgender person and i did not know oh my god!!!!!! And if most people did not see it that way they are lieing to themselves ask your husbands!!!Wives!! Be honest. Its Murder and GET RID OF HATE CRIMES!!!!!!!!And most transgenders do not tell anyone, so shouldn't they be arrested for falsifing documents?


Kiloelectronvolt   April 17th, 2009 12:26 pm ET

I love how this and other similar crimes are called "hate crimes" as if regular murder doesn't require hate.


isabel   April 17th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

I don't get it. It's like these readers are either dumb or blind!
If Andrade was with Angie all this time, HE KNEW she was a he!!! Period, end of story, there's no deceipt there. How are you going to spend a FEW DAYS


keishav.   April 17th, 2009 12:28 pm ET

Im so sad for the family of Angie Zapata may the lord keep you in his heart. Be strong, I am praying for you. RIP ANGIE


Mari   April 17th, 2009 12:29 pm ET

A transgender male is a male. A transgender female is still a female. Until the individual undergoes surgery and hormone treatments they remain the sex they were born. However, murder is murder and the accused should face whatever consequences the jury decides. He could have ended the relationship quickly and without violence.


Pat McCabe   April 17th, 2009 12:31 pm ET

I agree steve... murder is murder period. You obviously hate a person you muder or intend to muder. Varying degrees of hate is an exercise in stupidity to the highest degree.


Leah   April 17th, 2009 12:31 pm ET

Regardless of the situation and whether Angie lied, it's murder. There's always the option of just walking away, which Andrade should have done. What a concept.


Peter   April 17th, 2009 12:33 pm ET

"Hate crimes" laws are silly misguided attempts to enforce liberal orthodoxy. Why is it a worse crime to kill someone because they are gay than because they are fat or vulnerable? Hate crimes laws effectively say the life of a gay person is of more value than the life of another. These laws will lead to a disparity in sentences for the exact same crime. Does that sound like justice?


sharon meyer   April 17th, 2009 12:33 pm ET

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the defendant went to court with the victim. So, the consonance of everyone is that he heard the victim's name. Justin. Justin, could also be a females' name. The defendant could have been told by the victim that she went by the name of Angie as a middle name or nick-name. I don't think it is anything for the prosecution to hang there hats on. Maybe, the defendant never even made the distinction of different names. He was there only to hook up. We are going him too much credit.


Charisse   April 17th, 2009 1:38 pm ET

Killing the guy/girl was wrong. Hate crime? I don't think so, but i do think that these transgenders need to really consider telling the truth up front point blank period. Give the other person the option to go ahead with the situation or not. I can understand the rage, he was violated. Why do we have to have these bleeding hearts becuase gays and transgenders are so ridiculed? Oh well this is the life they CHOSE!


Response to Mitchell   April 17th, 2009 1:40 pm ET

This killing was not committed only because this guy was gay. It occurred because of the deceit and anger that this guy caused. Was it right? No.

In addition, calling it racist is ridiculous. Being racist would mean that he killed this person because of his color. To my knowledge, homosexuality is a choice not a color.


Gina   April 17th, 2009 1:41 pm ET

Angie did not deserve what happen to her. Justin made a choice to be who he was comfortable with. There was no DECEIPT here in no way shape or form. Andrade knew very well who he was with, did what he wanted to do. Why would a girl name Angie, all of a sudden in court be called Justin? Think about the facts that are presented.


Ali   April 17th, 2009 1:45 pm ET

My prayers go out to the victims family, but at the same time she should have told this man that she was biologically a man from the beginning. I don't think he should have killed her, but her actions of deception warranted at least a severe beating.


Krystin   April 17th, 2009 1:49 pm ET

this is terrible, being a trans woman myself, its scary. She was a trans woman James, you obviously just don't understand any aspect of it. No one should be killed because of who they are, its plain and simple. But I do understand how someone could feel, she should have been up front about who she was. But no one, I repeat NO ONE deserves to die like she did, for who she was.


Pmccall   April 17th, 2009 1:50 pm ET

This is one of the saddest things I've heard in a long time. I hope he gets the death penalty for this.


Ryan, Houston TX   April 17th, 2009 1:50 pm ET

Justifiable homicide!?!?!?! Just because you're angry, doesn't justify your killing of another human being. Deceit doesn't equal right to murder. Period. Those of you who think this is justified...if a wife cheats on her husband and he finds out and kills them both...is this justified? it's still deceit.


kenny   April 17th, 2009 1:50 pm ET

To stop hate crimes, we could practice the age long rule of "LIVE AND LET LIVE", IF WE CAN'T DO THAT THEN WE SHOULD JUST KEEP OUR DISTANCE FROM PEOPLE WE FEAR........


krystal jackson   April 17th, 2009 1:53 pm ET

This case is very sad and the man who did this deserves to pay and this country is supposed to be tolerant its people like him who make me sick no one should have to bury their child I'm very sorry for the loss of angie my prayers are with the family


Ben   April 17th, 2009 1:54 pm ET

Who cares if it was a hate crime or not, the bigger crime committed here was murder, let me repeat that THE BIGGER CRIME COMMITTED HERE WAS MURDER. Lock this animal up and throw away the key.


contrast   April 17th, 2009 1:55 pm ET

No matter what you do to your body, you will always be the same gender you were when you were born, and tricking somebody into thinking otherwise is wrong. If he had just told the guy he wasn't really a girl, there would have been not problem. I'm not condoning the murder, but I might be tempted to do the same thing if that had happened to me.


isa   April 17th, 2009 1:56 pm ET

I feel sorry for the defendatnt. I don't think this was a hate crime. I hope he isn't convicted of murder. All of this could have been avoided had Angie told the truth on the dating site to begin with. This is why you shouldn't meet people on the computer. No I have nothing against sexual orientation some of my best friends are gay.


Karl   April 17th, 2009 1:56 pm ET

Did Angie have a sex change operation? If not how could the defendant not know that she was a male? My understanding from the trial is that they had a sexual relationship.


DAVID   April 17th, 2009 1:58 pm ET

AS a gay man I wish so much that people and reporters would quit call gay and trans as a life style. It is a way of life!


Elizabeth   April 17th, 2009 2:00 pm ET

Murder is murder. There is never an excuse, period, other than direct self defense. This was murder...all murder is hate.


DAVID   April 17th, 2009 2:03 pm ET

As a gay man I widh that people and reporters would quit call gay and transgender is a life style. It is a way of life !!!!!!!!!


Alex   April 17th, 2009 2:04 pm ET

Murder is Murder. This man should be put away period. She may of been wrong for not being honest but he spent a FEW days with her! How would he not know?Either way Thats no reason to take a human beings life. In the end all will be Fair and I hope justice will be served. . Prayers go out to Angie and her Family.


dea   April 17th, 2009 2:07 pm ET

it's friday, 4/17 and i'm watching this live.
am i the only person who noticed that defense called her "angie" when she was crossing her distraught sister-in-law? (after trying so hard to make sure she called her justin)
p.s. my understanding is that hispanic culture is still very predjudiced about "alternative" lifestyles


tbone   April 17th, 2009 2:07 pm ET

justin should have been honest up front and told everyone involved with him that he was queer


yesenia   April 17th, 2009 2:09 pm ET

i also dont think this is a hate crime because he just hated the fact that she didnt tell him that she was a male doesnt mean is hates any one that is homosexual


Allison   April 17th, 2009 2:10 pm ET

We should teach out children not to hate... but also teach our children not to lie ! I am not saying that the man who killed the transgender female did the right thing.. but the transgender put himself/herself in harms way when he/she lied to the guy about being female. What heterosexual male would like that.. None of them !


George Jones   April 17th, 2009 2:10 pm ET

I think the killer knew he was having intimate relations with a biological male, then in a fit of homosexual panic he snapped. Hate crime or not, he deserves the death penalty.


Lori   April 17th, 2009 2:11 pm ET

If he hadn't been tricked by this person and had killed them because of who they are it would be a hate crime. However since he unknowingly had sex with someone who was once a man and who by some would still be considered a man, it is not a hate crime. Psychologically he probably felt like someone who has been raped or someone who committed an act that was repulsive to him.


sly   April 17th, 2009 2:12 pm ET

I think what Angie did to the killer is tantamount to rape, its rape by obfuscation. I don't condone murder, but I do understand rapists who avenge their rapes. The facts are vague, but if we Angie tricked the guy into homosexual sex then the murderer deserves some leniency. Hopefully we'll see the facts come out at trial.


Jeffery Rogers   April 17th, 2009 2:13 pm ET

re-criminalize these deviants, have them register as sexual deviant persons, rescind the gay rights laws and put morality back into a well ordered society. By the way any crime against persons has an element of hate so hate crime laws are bogus.


Adam   April 17th, 2009 2:14 pm ET

When did anger become a viable legal defense for lessening criminal charges? What the frick?


Brian   April 17th, 2009 2:15 pm ET

I can't believe the defense is even trying to justify this murder because the victim was transgendered. That'll let every murderer use the 'they made me angry' defense.


John Eccleston   April 17th, 2009 2:15 pm ET

There was a similar case involving transgender murder in Fremont California a few years ago. The case generated lots of publicity locally and involved 4 defendents. One testified against the others. The victim's name was 'Gwen' Araujo.


Felisha Wynn   April 17th, 2009 2:17 pm ET

Not to justify murder but she obviously didn't clearly state her sex during those internet conversations. Therefore, proving her deceit which caused her demise.


Simone S.   April 17th, 2009 2:18 pm ET

This is disturbing that Andrade murdered Angie in the manor that he did. I feel that he should get punished period, murder is murder. Andrade did not feel any regret or remorse. Justice needs to be served. My payers are with Angie and her family.


Phil   April 17th, 2009 2:19 pm ET

So I gather from a lot of these postings... if somebody lies to you, and you feel decieved, then you can kill them in a fit of rage. So what if the lie was that she/he was 25 not her actual age of 31, I guess if there was deception and it really bothered you, then it is a lesser cime than 1st degree murder. Does that make any sense. Think about it.


Thomas   April 17th, 2009 2:20 pm ET

Of all the words in the english language...HATE is never allowed in my house. My Grandma used to say you can't hate someone or something until you have first loved it/them. So to say that you hate is to say that first you loved. My thoughts go out to ALL involved including those who read this horrible story. RIP Justin Zapata.


Lord Is My Shepard   April 17th, 2009 2:22 pm ET

The Lord Works in mysterious ways.


Reagan   April 17th, 2009 2:23 pm ET

For the anti-hate crime folks, please notice that motivation is relevant in law and prosecution. Motivation is the difference between first and second degree murder. If murder is murder, as many argue, then there would be no distinction between 1st and 2nd degree murder...or crimes with intent.


J.Crobuzon   April 17th, 2009 2:23 pm ET

I've got gay friends and I'm not easily shocked, but Zapata seems to have been looking for trouble and got it. I'm not sure 'first degree murder' fits the facts here. Both these lowdown dingbungers needed therapy IMHO.


Doc   April 17th, 2009 2:24 pm ET

Whenever I see a mention of a "hate crime,' I am reminded of George Orwell's, "1984;" specifically – his 'thought police'.

As I understand the concept of hate crime, a person can be punished not only for his actions but for what he was *thinking* during those actions.

Food for *thought*?


Connie   April 17th, 2009 2:24 pm ET

I don't think this was a hate crime, this was a lie crime she should had told him she was a he, Any way nobody should be killed because of this.


conscience?   April 17th, 2009 2:27 pm ET

This should only be considered a hate crime if it can be proved that he "hated" transgender people before the murder. I would assume he didn't seek them out to torment and this was a reaction to being deceived. I can't imagine how he felt when he found out. It doesn't justify murder, but I can understand the rage.


sethken   April 17th, 2009 2:27 pm ET

He deceived the man into believing that he is a woman. When you do that, you have raped and stolen what does not belong to you.


viola, miami   April 17th, 2009 2:30 pm ET

As a gay female, while I deplore what happened to "Angie", I think had she been upfront about her sexual transformation this horrible crime may have been avoided. Do we blame the victim, in this case deception played a horrific role in this crime.


Tim   April 17th, 2009 2:31 pm ET

This is such a sad story. This should never have happened to this beautiful young woman. Why do humans sometimes act like such vile, unevolved creatures? Love and let people libe as they choose if they're not hurting you.


Reagan   April 17th, 2009 2:32 pm ET

Not mentioned in this article, but the defendant's girlfriend quoted him telling her about the murder, "gay things need to die." Still don't see an anti-gay bias folks? Sounds like a pretty clear hate crime to me.


John M   April 17th, 2009 2:35 pm ET

If lying to get someone into bed with you is grounds for justifiable homicide, a lot of men (and some women) better watch out.

Think about that before you argue that Angie somehow deserved to die for her deceit.


Juanita   April 17th, 2009 2:36 pm ET

I don't believe it was a crime against a transgender-but mankind itself. When someone is deceived in such a way, it's understandable they would be devastated, confused and yes, angry. But, we have an obligation to society to take control over our emotions and not give in to anger and commit murder. My sympathy to both families.


Mark   April 17th, 2009 2:37 pm ET

How can you not tell that this a man? To me he just exterminated one more peice of human garbage, and for someone to lie about their sex and have sexual relations with you IS rape! I really dont care who this offends because, homosexual behavior in general should be outlawed.


Dan   April 17th, 2009 2:39 pm ET

And Andrade himself is a victim of a repressive society.


igor   April 17th, 2009 2:40 pm ET

cea said >>probably shouldn't have killed him<< Gee, ya think??


Dianna   April 17th, 2009 2:41 pm ET

We must teach our children to not lie!


Rod   April 17th, 2009 2:42 pm ET

Just goes to show that the closet may be the safest place to stay.


Kevin   April 17th, 2009 2:45 pm ET

-addition-court documents have said that Zapata preformed oral sex on Andrade


Gman   April 17th, 2009 2:50 pm ET

What legal recourse did Allen have in this case?

Maybe we should make it a crime for tranies to pass themselves off as natural?

(Murder is still murder though)


bob   April 17th, 2009 2:54 pm ET

he was there for 7 days how could he not know come on people!!!!!!!!!!!!


jonathan davis   April 17th, 2009 2:58 pm ET

"We MUST teach our children to NOT hate" hahahhahaha. We must teach them to accept everything. What nonsense. Hate has its place.


Glenn   April 17th, 2009 2:58 pm ET

Unfortunately, Only 2 people actually know when and how Angie's transgendered status was revealed. One of those people is dead.

The other person has admitted to killing her. In addition he stole her car, robbed her house, and has a 10 year history in the Colorado Penal system for burglary and assaults.

Quit blaming the victim here.


kbez   April 17th, 2009 3:01 pm ET

it doesn't matter if the person is transgendered, gay, or straight... murder is murder!!! It's wrong not matter who it is!!!!


Heidi   April 17th, 2009 3:13 pm ET

This indeed a hate crime. The truth of the matter is that the man that committed murder after learning that he had actually had sex with a transgendered person hated HIMSELF so much that he had to remove the proof that he could possibly be attracted to a non-biological woman. Too bad it didn't change his hate, just stole someone's life.


dre   April 17th, 2009 3:13 pm ET

Michelle, killing someone because they're gay is not racist! think about it! I am truly sorry for the family of the victim. They should not have to endure this unfortunate tragedy. But if a person choose to change their gender without changing their plumbing, r they automatically the other sex? When is Justin referred to as 'she' in the article? That will be the next political debate is instead of sex, people will want to be gender neutral.


bob   April 17th, 2009 3:14 pm ET

2nd degree murder is what this guy committed.

When I was younger a gay man tried to feel me up, and it was absolutely justified when I hospitalized him in self defense.


Trinity   April 17th, 2009 3:14 pm ET

Everyone is passing judgment and talking about deceit. What happened to morals and values people? Take more than a few days to get to no someone before you decide to have sex with them. Meet people the old fashioned way.. Talk to them, date them.. dont just fook them!


Ricky   April 17th, 2009 3:16 pm ET

I don't care if the transgendered individual lied or not, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR KILLING SOMEONE.

I DON'T CARE HOW MAD YOU ARE...what don't you people understand about this?

Killing is not a solution, just like war.


James E.   April 17th, 2009 3:19 pm ET

I think the man just snaped once he find out that it was a men.


mj   April 17th, 2009 3:21 pm ET

the killing wasnt justified in any way..but it should be noted the girl deceived the defendent, she didnt make it clear prior to their sexual intimacy that she was a man. Now what straight man wouldnt freak out when he found out the girl who performed oral sex on him was a man???? no reason to kill, but I dont think the deception should be forgotten.


WomanAllMyLife   April 17th, 2009 3:22 pm ET

Since when did "deceit" become justification for murder?!?!

And to those posters who've equated Andrade's situation with being raped... I hope you never have to learn what a completely false and inappropriate analogy you are making.


Heather   April 17th, 2009 3:26 pm ET

How do you know for sure that she did not tell him she was a transgender? Was she up front and honest in her past relationship? The website that they meet on what did her page look like and say about her? Not matter what this is murder and he should be punished! Nothing warrants the taking of anothers life!!1


Kristin   April 17th, 2009 3:26 pm ET

I am appalled to see people justifying this murder because she didn't tell him that she was transgendered. That does not, in any way, justify killing her. As the prosecution said, Andrade knew for at least 36 hours, so this wasn't even an act of blind rage. Besides self-defense, there is no justifiable reason to take the life of another human being, deception included.


Trip McNeely   April 17th, 2009 3:29 pm ET

Can we all stop calling this person a her? It was a him dressed as a her. Like Obama said, putting lipstick on a pig still makes it a pig. We live in the land of the make believe and people don't even care anymore.


anna   April 17th, 2009 3:32 pm ET

Being transgender is about gender identity, not sexual orientation as many of you seem to be confused by.


HumanBeing   April 17th, 2009 3:32 pm ET

What a horrible waste of life... murder is disgusting... minus the death penalty throw the book at this intolerant sorry excuse for a human being!


mike   April 17th, 2009 3:34 pm ET

By deceiving Allen, Angie raped him. The reason why rape is so heinous is because of the mental scarring and emotional pain that it causes the victim. In a rape case the rapist is similar to a hunter, in a transgender case the rapist is a trapper, either way the prey ends up being damaged.

If he/she knew that Allen was straight then imo that should be a crime. Although murder is wrong no matter what, a rapist being killed isnt as bad as an innocent person.


Mel   April 17th, 2009 3:36 pm ET

Don't blame the victim. This was first degree murder. Andrade confessed that he killed her, she's dead, there's a body. Case closed. It doesn't matter that Angie was a transgender, she's a person the same as anyone else.

As for it being a hate crime, he killed her AFTER he found out that she wasn't biologically female; he admited that he killed her BECAUSE she was a transgender. If that isn't a hate crime, what is?


Jose B   April 17th, 2009 3:36 pm ET

It lied to him. Yes, he over reacted and killed it which he shouldn't have, however if JP didn't lie to him, they wouldn't have met to begin with. This is not a hate crime but a crime. People need to start being more honest with themselves as well as with others. Sad that this happened though but if that happened to me and I found she was an it, I'd be pretty pissed/embrassed and in rage as well. I would have felt semi-raped =\


BJ   April 17th, 2009 3:37 pm ET

MJ, is not a she, is a he and he should know better that to pretend to be a she


Joshua   April 17th, 2009 3:37 pm ET

We MUST teach our children to second-guess everyone's biological sex.


Adele Davis   April 17th, 2009 3:39 pm ET

We must teach our children not to deceive!


Jack   April 17th, 2009 3:40 pm ET

Sounds like this guy felt like he had been raped by this he/she. He/she should have been honest and not raped the guy. This is what happens when people do not tell the truth. What was there to gain by being dishonest.


Myron Edmond   April 17th, 2009 3:40 pm ET

Allen Andrade should be charged with the crime of murder because that is what he is admitedly guilty of. What he should not bee charge with is a bies motavated crime. Not only because there is no accuret way to conclude rather a person comits a crime because of there own bies about race, gender, or sexual prefrence but also because in america a person should never be punished for there thoughts but only for there actions.


Josh   April 17th, 2009 3:44 pm ET

If the defendant was lied to by the victim then i completely support the defendant and feel no remorse for the victim at all and belive the defendant should be set free. On the other hand if he was aware of it actually being a male then it is a hate crime and he shoudl be punished accordingly.


PSB   April 17th, 2009 3:45 pm ET

Some of these comments are unbelievable. Do people really think that because someone lies to them (no matter what it is about) that murder is a justifiable reaction? It is difficult to believe that Andrade spent several days with Angie without realizing that something may be amiss. Sounds like maybe he was enjoying the relationship too much based on the severity of his outrage; and then needed to get rid of the source of this guilty pleasure to justify his own manhood. There was no rape here, but two consenting individuals looking for a sexual experience. And someone comparing non-disclosure of correct gender to non-disclosure of having a deadly sexually transmitted disease? Not even close. I don't condone dishonesty, but come on, murder is hardly the punishment for this crime!


dea   April 17th, 2009 3:45 pm ET

regardless of however anyone has been raised or what their personal beliefs are, can anyone out there imagine growing up with the feeling that you are gay or living in the wrong body or are the wrong 'color' or the wrong religion or speak the wrong language? i can't but i can sympathize. people don't ask for this...to be different and ostrasised.
this person needs to be punished for taking a human life. the rest is left up to a higher source
ps altho' i agree that taking a life in TRUE self defense is, well, not acceptabe, but often necessary


Eric   April 17th, 2009 3:46 pm ET

We must NOT teach our children justifible hate through religion.


Greg H   April 17th, 2009 3:46 pm ET

First off, my heart goes out to Angie and family/friends. Totally outside the issue of gender/sex, this individual was created in the image of a loving God-nobody should ever be treated like this. Even though there was deceit involved, most murders involve cases of extreme deceit and hatred? Do they not? So I believe that Angie's dishonest approach/lack of communication that he is a she/should not be used to lessen the sentence of the charges being brought against Andrade. Plus he had 36 hours and numerous clues that something wasn't as Andrade expected at first-a woman lover. Two days together of intimacy? 36 hours to think about it? All the clues? Guilty: 1st degree murder.


w. allen   April 17th, 2009 3:46 pm ET

This man spent several days with Angie, he had to know that she was a man, unless he 's stupid. He had time to think about his crime, instead of walking away, he make a choice and that was to kill Angi. Because Angi is transgender, it is considered a hate crime–if Angi had not been transgender, he would not be on trial, because he would not have killed her. He hated her for what she was and the fact that he felt guilty that he was attracted to a man. HATE CRIME--YES


Stephanie   April 17th, 2009 3:47 pm ET

@ Ben: "When I was younger a gay man tried to feel me up, and it was absolutely justified when I hospitalized him in self defense."

So it would be absolutely justified if a woman socks you in the face for making an inappropriate move on her? I rather like that analogy (and would be the first to put it into action), but I fail to see its application to what you're proposing.


Brian   April 17th, 2009 3:47 pm ET

Shouldn't Justin be posthumously charged with a hate crime too? I think so.


Ed Green   April 17th, 2009 3:50 pm ET

I could not care less of people are gay or not & 100% support gay marriage. However, this is not a "hate crime" since the guy did not go out of his way to find and kill a transgender person. He (her) found him.


HumanBeing   April 17th, 2009 3:52 pm ET

Freedom of speech is worth fighting for! Weather or not you agree... it doesnt matter. TG (transgendered) have the right to refer to themselves however they want. Intolerance & discrimination are the problems here.


Zdoc   April 17th, 2009 3:52 pm ET

Just to clarify...
Transgender does not mean you are gay. It means that you believe that you are physiologically and mentally the opposite gender.


S Lorton   April 17th, 2009 3:58 pm ET

All murder is because of hate. If you loved the person you wouldn't murder them. Common sense 101.

Andrade is guilty of murder because murder is wrong. Not because he murdered a transgendered female. If it is proven he knew about Zapata's gender prior to the vicious crime, he should be guilty of premeditation.

Either way this vermin should never see the light of day again.


dbf   April 17th, 2009 3:58 pm ET

Why do people always make the schools responsible? Do parents not take ANY responsibility anymore? Wake up, America.


DK   April 17th, 2009 3:58 pm ET

We must teach our children to not kill, and to not change their sex.


JimS.   April 17th, 2009 4:00 pm ET

All of you saying "it's not a hate crime, it's because the defendent was lied to" are assuming he killled the victim as soon as he found out. That is exactly the case it hinges on for the prosecution. They claim the defendent knew for 3 days.

If he had killed her immediately upon finding out, he might have a defense of "justifiable rage". But if he knew for 3 days before commiting the murder, with plenty of time to plan it (or decide not to do it) it clearly was pre-medidated, and predicated on the gender of the victim. Which does fit a hate crime.


Orange   April 17th, 2009 4:02 pm ET

Rape and pedophilia involve forcible acts. This case did not. Even if Mr. Andrade was not aware of Ms. Zapata's transgender status, the acts he engaged in with her were consensual. Regardless of whether fraudulently induced by misrepresentation/non-disclosure, these acts were nonetheless consensual (he is well past the age of consent). Any resulting outrage/shame he felt, therefore, is irrelevant in terms of a defense to murder.

That's not to say, however, that his outrage/shame is irrelevant to the entire case. Rather, in an ironic twist of justice, his reaction of outreach/shame to her status may be the very evidence that leads to a hate crime charge (and conviction) against him.

Hate crimes serve a very real purpose, just as non-discrimination/-harassment laws do in a civil context. The latter allow people to secure jobs and housing without regard to their "protected characteristics" (race, religion, age, disabled status, veteran status, sex, gender identity, etc.). We had to adopt civil rights laws to make this happen, though, of course, the laws are still violated.

Lastly, all murder is hateful. But not all murders are hate crimes. The objection to the terminology is understandable. Should we call them "civil rights crimes" instead? Semantics aside, let's not lose sight that when we protect those who are most vulnerable, we become a gentler society and a stronger nation.

In closing, I offer my respect and condolences to the family and friends of Ms. Zapata.


Scott   April 17th, 2009 4:02 pm ET

Perhaps if people would keep things in their pants until they actually know someone these things wouldn't happen? I don't fault Angie. I don't feel it was right but disclosure of those things is a personal choice. If he had found out she had 2 kids and she hadn't told him, would that justify his rage as well?


alice   April 17th, 2009 4:03 pm ET

To Kimberly May April 17th, 2009 11:55 am ET (Re: your response to me)

The correct pronoun is HE, as in Justin, as in HIS lawful name as recognized by the courts and as shown by HIS male anatomy. And, no, gay bashing should not be kept separate since that would be a true hate crime whereas this is not. I can understand his reaction of disgust with himself and it could have been avoided. Justin would be alive today if HE would have been honest in the first place and not tricked a heterosexual man into a homosexual relationship. She didn't die for being different. He did not seek him out and kill him because he was transexual. He killed him for the deceit, which is where the rage came from. Justin was not an innocent victim. He was a victim but he played a role in his death.


Jon, Florida   April 17th, 2009 4:04 pm ET

I am tired of hearing people call this some kind of rape or something. Rape is when someone is unwilling FORCED into a sexual activity. He was not forced to have sex with her/him he did it voluntarily. Whether she/he deceived him is at this point a matter of the murderers words so we do not know for sure. Secondary to that, should it be called rape if a man lies to a woman to get her in bed (like that he has lots of money or something). I don't think so. I think that because some people are ignorant of alternative lifestyles than their own they will try to justify anything even murder.


Harold   April 17th, 2009 4:04 pm ET

Hate Crimes should be stricken from the law. Murder is Murder, violence is violence not matter the reason. Apparently it would be more severe for someone to kill because I am white then it would be for someone to kill me because they were robbing me? What do I care, I'm dead. Punish all equally for each and every crime.

By the way Angie (Justin) didn't tell Andrade that she was once a man because to her, she was a women not once a man. If Angie started every conversation with "Hey, I'm Angie, I used to be a man. Do you want to date?" No man would date her. Plus it's not anyones business but Angie's.


Leah Peters   April 17th, 2009 4:05 pm ET

So many ignorant people responding. Did you all not read the story? He lied about his story! He knew her history, it was a robbery and murder and NOTHING else. The man is a killer and deserves to spend life in prison. Shame on all of you for trying to blame the victim.


mike   April 17th, 2009 4:06 pm ET

This is the most backwards statement i have ever read, if you are born a male and like males you are gay

"Just to clarify…
Transgender does not mean you are gay. It means that you believe that you are physiologically and mentally the opposite gender."

I am a transunicorn, i believe myself to be physiologically and mentally a unicorn.


Elizabeth K   April 17th, 2009 4:06 pm ET

I don't understand why everyone is so divided on this issue. As a transperson I can assure you that it is not my intent to be murdered for any reason!

I have the right to judge what I tell people about myself early in a relationship, and if I was dating (I am not) and was very interested in a person, I would certainly want to let some time pass before telling them I was assigned male at birth – although I am totally transitioned female now.

I mean, that is a HUGE personal fact to bring up at the first telephone call. Like saying. 'Hello Mr. Doe, glad you called me (by the way, I am transsexual) and how are you? " So I suspect that this very young transwoman was really looking for a 'normal,' female life, hoping to meet Mr. Right. It turned out horribly, Mr. Wrong.

Now so many blame the victim. She should have been more cautious, not so trusting. She was just trying to be a happy person. She died over a man's shame, real or imagined, that he had been betrayed? Or was he just homophobic? Maybe homophobic about himself?

Please read about gender dysphoric people. We are really just like you – but have a really terrible life – because of what we feel is true about ourselves. Its about gender NOT about sex. It is NOT a lifestyle choice. I wouldn't wish my life on my worst enemy.

How can killing a person because they don't fit your idea of 'normal'
NOT be a hate crime? And if it was premeditated, it was a truly evil deed.

I say, let the courts look at this. But remeber courts are about the 'law," not about 'justice.' God is the final judge.


Rico   April 17th, 2009 4:08 pm ET

Justin is a he who dressed like a woman and that does not make him a woman. He was killed and the murderer should be punished. The hate crime concept for this Justin is ridiculous. He shouldn't have been acting like a girl if he wasn't. My dad used to say call an ace an ace and a spade a spade. In this case Justin was the ace of spades NOT the queen of spades.Andrade is a looser no doubt and a murderer but I feel for him because he couldn't control himself after he was tricked. Sad case all the way around but let's not glorify Justin because he was confused about his gender. He placed himself in harms way by his actions. This is not a hate crime although Andrade hated that he was with a dude instead of the girl Justin pretended to be. Justin's fantasy cost him his life. Let's get all the facts before we judge anybody.


Heather   April 17th, 2009 4:08 pm ET

It is too bad that someone died, however, that person put themselves in a dangerous situation by meeting someone on-line and brining them back to their home. The victim put itself in harms way, and maybe if it was honest from the beginning it wouldn't have happened.


Erik   April 17th, 2009 4:09 pm ET

This Guy "Angie" should've know he was playing with fire. Just becasue people don't bash gays or same sex couples doesn't mean they agree with that lifestyle at all. Men who are trying to pass as women and deceive men that are looking to date real women, will end up victims of violence. I am sorry for all parties involved.


Aldonova   April 17th, 2009 4:09 pm ET

Question....if the surgery was completed and he indeed became a she what about her is still male?

akin to rape...are you kidding.

C'mon men if she was hot you would not care.

Now hate crime...that I don't know about. I agree that technically all murders contain a certain aspect of "hate" and she was not specifically chosen because of being transgendered.

And one last thing guys.....if a woman has had breast enlargement do you insist she tell you? It is all about being comfortable in your skin.


MONICA   April 17th, 2009 4:09 pm ET

OK, so every murder is a hate crime. If you kill someone, you certaintly didn't like them. We need to stop separating everything-gay, straight, black, white. Doesn't matter. Hate is hate. It should be treated like any other murder trial regardless of the victim's gender or sexual preference.


EqualityJ   April 17th, 2009 4:10 pm ET

If Angie came up front about her identity, then she would be a drag queen, not transgender. The lives of transgender people are hard enough as it is that they don't need to go tell the whole world. The whole point of being transgender is being comfortable in the the body of the opposite sex and LIVING THAT WAY. If you happen to date someone who is transgender and find out and are not okay with it guess what you can do, LEAVE THEM. As far as hate crimes, and I am saying this after reading Bill from VA at 10:50am, all crimes are not hate crimes. He killed her because of who she was as a person. If he killed her for sleeping with his mother, it would have been because of what she did, not who she was. So yes, this is absolutely a hate crime. Some of you people really need to open your eyes.


rdh   April 17th, 2009 4:10 pm ET

This case is about a person who violently murdered another person... that's it.
Yes, we all agree deceit is wrong. And you can have all the debates you want about the merits of hate crimes legislation. That is not what this case is about.
If you excuse the killer's behavior because of the deceit, or if you are getting hung up on the lesser charge of a hate crime, then you are allowing your prejudice to blind you from the fundamental truth about this case: one human being executed another human being and is therefore guilty of murder.


Barb   April 17th, 2009 4:11 pm ET

Murder is murder, period. No matter what the motivation is or the excuse, if you take another person's life, you are a murderer. It doesn't matter why, it doesn't matter how, if it was not an accident or self-defense, it is murder. Why do we have to have various shades of murder? Why confuse the matter? Why sugar coat it? It's wrong period. No matter who does, why or who the victim is, that stuff does not matter. When will people learn that if we actually want everyone to be equal than we simply must get rid of all gray areas of the law and hold everyone up to the same standards, regardless of ANYTHING.


Parker   April 17th, 2009 4:11 pm ET

There was no rape in this story. Rape is not defined as having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with. It's sex by force. There was nothing forced here. Many people lie to their casual sex partners these days, whether it be about their marital status, health status, sexual history, etc. It was dishonest, but it wasn't rape under any circumstances. If there is consent, there is no rape. Even consent under deceit is still consent. I do NOT condone what Angie did. Sadly, deceit and shock stir up all kinds of emotions and it never ends well. However, NO KIND OF DECEIT JUSTIFIES MURDER. How many of us have never been lied to? Please! We would all be killers!


Bruce Dickinson   April 17th, 2009 4:12 pm ET

This seems right on the edge of being a hate crime. You have to ask yourself, why did he kill her? Because she was transgender? Or because he felt humiliated and betrayed? The trial will hopefully bring this to light. Either way, I think first degree murder is going to be a hard sell. Nobody plans to murder someone with a fire extinguisher.

It's really a shame, Angie seemed like a brave and vibrant human being from what I've read, and the world is a little emptier, colder, and less interesting without her.


Barb W   April 17th, 2009 4:12 pm ET

I think comparing Andrade to a rape victim is insulting to true rape survivors. He participated willingly and according to his account of the killing, received oral sex from Angie Zapata numerous times over the time they spent together. It's hard to believe that a 32 year old wouldn't know that Zapata was not male. I do believe that people of any gender should be honest about their willingness to participate in sex, aversion to certain acts, etc. but most of all they must know the people with whom they are having sex.

The creator, whoever she/he was, should have been more discriminating when it came time to distribute testosterone; it can be a dangerous drug when used by people of limited intellect or compassion. The number of times men in this post have referred to the murder victim as "it" or a "rapist" is unbelievable.


George   April 17th, 2009 4:13 pm ET

One thing that everyone seems to be missing is the fact that the man was a known gang member. I believe I saw that on one of the earlier news releases. I wonder if we would be having the same conversation if it was a business man who reacted the same way. I agree that murder is murder no matter who did it but I have to question the motive of politicians who first described the criminal as a known gang member. Seems strange that he isn't just a guy who beat a transgender person to death.


J.B. Brown   April 17th, 2009 4:15 pm ET

Why can't we take the emotion and politically correct b.s. out of the argument and view the story from an honest angle. 1. A man went to meet a woman he met online seeking a relationship – so there was no premeditation. 2. The man pretending to be a woman deceived the other man into having sexual relations that went against the straight person's beliefs and sexual orientation – and many, myself included, would consider this to be rape. 3. The straight man eventually realizes he has been tricked and sexually violated and in a fit of rage he kills the transgender male – this is no excuse to kill another human being and the defendant should go to jail but this is no more a "hate crime" than any other murder and it was not premeditated and it is certainly not 1st degree murder.


joe   April 17th, 2009 4:18 pm ET

Well i am not sure if anyone has even read what was said but it appear's from what i read that this guy knew that she was not a female but a he/she. so sorry to all those who say he did not know he did so yeah it was a planned killing......


a.zimmerman   April 17th, 2009 4:19 pm ET

"We must teach our children not to hate"

We must teach our children not to lie too....and pretend they are something they aren't.


joseph   April 17th, 2009 4:20 pm ET

how we Americans love to quibble over nothing. Murder is murder, but Americans rarely understand that ones life is irreplacable. So let us remember, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.


Jim   April 17th, 2009 4:21 pm ET

Isn't it rather sad that the discussion is about what degree of murder this is? Murder is murder. I paticularly liked the comparison to the lyrics from "South Pacific" Angie was transgendered, it is different. But who is to say that because of an appendage what that person really feels inside. Is it OK for the killer to have killed because he was lied to? Because he felt that he had been deceived? I must say that if that is grounds to commit murder, there are many people who should be thankful that someone hasn't come gunning for them.

As a society we must learn to embrace each other, celebrate our differences and offer respect to other living beings. Have we become so jaded that a life is just as disposable as athe rest of our materialistic needs?

Get a life people.


April   April 17th, 2009 4:22 pm ET

This is This is not a hate crime at all... just plain murder. I agree with a previous post, this was rape revenged by murder.


J   April 17th, 2009 4:23 pm ET

Let me think..how many times did I date or have a relationship with someone who told me they were, "honest," "kind," "generous"..I could go on... but If killing a person is allowed because you learn someone is not what they said they are...we'd all be murders!


Samantha   April 17th, 2009 4:24 pm ET

For one, the victim is a MAN. Straight men do not want to have sex with another man. I do not condone murder, but come on... What did you expect to happen???


Bethany   April 17th, 2009 4:25 pm ET

You don't murder someone you love. All murders are hate crimes. The "justification" (outside of self-defense, naturally) should not make a difference. Killing is wrong, plain & simple.


SEP   April 17th, 2009 4:25 pm ET

I'm really getting tired of all these people calling the victim "she." He was a male, playing dress-up as a girl, and got himself hurt in the process of trying to trick another guy in to a relationship. End of story.


YOOOO   April 17th, 2009 4:27 pm ET

I think Zapata's should of let it be known what gender he was! Don't surprise a person! Andrade may of done the crime but was proubly freaked out! I think if you want to be gay let it be known don't sneak up on a person!!! Let it out! Be proud and don't hide it! A person a every reason to know about the other person they are going to get involved with. Just like a person with HIV i believe everyone would like to know if they were going to sleep with someone who has it.....my thoughts only.


K   April 17th, 2009 4:29 pm ET

Justin Zapata RAPED Andrade and HE paid the ultimate price. All of you political correct people out there, ask yourself, what would you do to someone who rapes you? I can't say I would have acted differently from Andrade if I had the same experience. And no, this is not just a simple lie, it's the same as if a 25 year old (babyface) man lie about being 16 and dates a minor. If the parent of the girl finds out his real age and kills him, no one would feel sorry for him. Be gay all you want, but be open and honest about it.


Ron Howerton   April 17th, 2009 4:29 pm ET

I see the "Blame the victim" mentality is still alive in America. I certainly hope none of those who expressed such an opinion here are ever selected for jury duty.


Tempest   April 17th, 2009 4:30 pm ET

I dont condone deception in any form, it usually leads to problems.

However that being said, who is on trial here? What if she had lied about her, religion, her race, her education, what if she had cheated... would that make it OK to kill her... sorry NO!
And People get over it, having sex with someone who looks, acts, and functions as a female does NOT make you Gay even if that person was born male... Being attracted to somone who looks acts and functions as the same sex makes you Gay... (not that there is anything wrong with that if it makes you happy)

It was premeditated and driven by only one factor and that was that she had been born Male. Big clue to Everyone... we all start off as a single cell and only one gene makes us either male or female so we really are not all that different at the core of it.

No excuses at all, anyone has the choice to simply walk away from anyone they dont like.


dea   April 17th, 2009 4:31 pm ET

i've been reading some of the comments...
the most disturbing are from a couple of men who say the defendant was raped. raped is when someone forces sexual acts on you AGAINST YOUR WISHES/WILL.
as a person who has been raped, i find these comments exceedingly offensive.
i'd say 'shame on you' but, relying on your comments, you feel no shame


Bill   April 17th, 2009 4:31 pm ET

What Zapata did is a crime. It is the actions of a sexual predator, and those actions can be psychologically devastating. Why are you dismissing them? They do not justify murder, nor should they be dismissed as a silly little lie. He scarred this kid emotionally for life. And now the idiot has thrown the rest of his life away by committing murder. What the victim "tricked" him into doing doesn't hold a candle to what is going to happen to him in prison. These are two lives completely destroyed and lost over a "little deceit".

How about you people use your heads. There are ways to have relations with another person without exploring too much. And if you were to find out afterwards that the other person was the same sex, I can't imagine you'd be too rational. Who knows what happened the 15th and 16th?

Transgenders should absolutely be charged with sexual crimes when deceiving straight men. They shouldn't be able to walk away with no consequences whatsoever. This kid should be charged with murder, but it is not a hate crime.


Wrytr   April 17th, 2009 4:31 pm ET

I'm very pro individual rights, including that of transgender individuals. That being said, I'm not sure I'm convinced the "correct" word is "she" for the victim. I believe that is a respectful way to refer to man who has had operations to approximate a woman, and I might be willing to use the word "she" as a courtesy – but that is different than "she" being the "correct" term.

As science blurs the lines of gender allocation – it may increasingly useful to come up with new words to describe people who do not fall solidly in either the male or female category, either because of unusual birth circumstances, or through surgery.


paul wisconsin   April 17th, 2009 4:40 pm ET

Kris B
diversity in education? Ten steps and then brainstorming. How about brain washing. there is and was in our schools a ten step program called the ten commandments that have somehow dissapeared in our schools, in courtrooms and other public places. I think there are a few commandments that were broken here. Bring back christian ethics into our schools and courts and stop the decline of morality in this country which includes murder and a guy dressing like a woman.


D in Florida   April 17th, 2009 4:40 pm ET

Did someone actually say the victim should be considered a rapist...wow...and we wonder why our children are killing each other on the playground, because their poor uneducated parents taught them to hate one because of race and sexual orientation. Regardless of personal views, SHE did not deserve to die and heck SHE isnt even here to say..."yes, he knew about me was honest up front"...instead you are siding with the murderer. Wow, Im glad that I dont teach my children to hate and hopefully your children wont kill them because they have gay parents.


DP   April 17th, 2009 4:42 pm ET

People have the right to change their sex, and any justification of this killing based on deception is deplorable. Yes, she should not have deceived him, but that does not make this killing any more justifiable.

It is most likely very difficult being a pre-operation transsexual. You have all the non-private characteristics of one sex, while not having been fully changed.


Cindy   April 17th, 2009 4:44 pm ET

You can't tell me that Andrade did not know that this person was transgendered. I'm sorry. They spent how many days together before he killed her. Are you telling me that they hung out for days, and he never noticed that she has male parts? Please. All those days together he never noticed an adams apple?
I believe that it is a hate crime. He had to of known that she was a he and he wanted to have sex with her. And maybe afterwards, he got embarrased and instead of walking away, he does the one thing that he hope will keep his little "dirty secret" from getting out....kill the other person. We all don't know what the two talked about while together. I think he went there to specifically have sex with Angie and then to kill her just so he can get off on it and then blame it on Angie.


grandma nora   April 17th, 2009 4:47 pm ET

it certainly is a hate crime,, He hated the fact that he was tricked, he hated the fact that she was a transgender, and he decided premeditated) to kill her.. to even state that she was at fault is ridiculous,, walk a mile as the sayin goes. Perhaps she was looking for love and wanted to tell him at the right time. She never got the chance. A young beautiful women in her Prime. Shame on all of you who blindly state she should have told him.. She never deserved to be killed in this most violent manner.. She was born a man but she was always a women.


Lee   April 17th, 2009 4:57 pm ET

This is a hate crime. People can kill out of extreme jealousy, greed, mental disorder, self-defense, etc. But the motive here is hate toward a particular group of people. As long as there is hate, there will always be Andrade and Angie. Andrade's reaction came from the hate and values that's directly or indirectly taught and seared into his mind.


Dan   April 17th, 2009 4:57 pm ET

The perpetrator of the crime has to be killed the same way he killed the poor lady (boy). Justice must prevail.


Jessica   April 17th, 2009 5:02 pm ET

I believe that this is a hate crime case. I think he pre-meditated the murder of Angie. He didn't want anyone to find out he was with someone who was transgender. This poor girl trusted there relationship.


chrystal   April 17th, 2009 5:02 pm ET

You could call this a hate crime if on the day they met he killed her. This is not a HATE crime! He is just another killer. Her transgender has nothing 2 do with this.


Nanay G   April 17th, 2009 5:07 pm ET

A lot of the comments here are exactly the same reason why Angie could not come out as a transgender person.

To all the people here who are saying that Angie should just have come out in the first place then why not try it? Come out at your work place, to your family and friends ... tell them you are gay or transgender even if you are not and just see their reactions.

If you are wondering what transgender people are going through. In youtube type in 20/20 transgender kids.

Two weeks ago I was watching a game show where they blindfolded a young guy and he was made to believe that he was making out with a young girl where in fact it was an old lady.

So .. he should have killed the old lady? it was deceitful after all, right?

I say maximum punishment for hate crime and murder.


Oscar Wilde   April 17th, 2009 5:10 pm ET

correction "If your " should be " : " If you are goin to play ......


GARY   April 17th, 2009 5:11 pm ET

NOT USING THE VICTAMS REAL NAME IN COURT ,IN MY OPION IS TRYING TO DECIEVE THE JURY,IF THE DEFENDENT DID NOT KNOW THE THE TRUE GENDER BEFORE THE SEXUAL ENCOUNTER,THEVICTUM WAS GUILTY OF RAPEING THE DEFENDANT.


Tess   April 17th, 2009 5:16 pm ET

I have a transgender male to female friend. It's considered good etiquette to refer to a transgender by the gender they perceive themselves to be. So, as I understand this:

Transgender is a matter of identity, not sexuality. You can be a transgender and still be straight, gay, or bi. Transgender is about who you are. Sexuality is about who you're attracted to.

I also understand that transgender symptoms show up very early in childhood. Parents need to be careful not to ignore the signs, and make sure the child gets counseling so they can cope with their identity. Offer love and support, no matter what.


Tess   April 17th, 2009 5:19 pm ET

Now about this trial, I do believe it was Angie's responsibility to inform her partner of her identity, sexual history, etc before engaging in sexual acts. Also, we need to teach people to not immediately engage in sexual acts with people we barely know and trust.

This could have been prevented. People please be careful who you hook up with, no matter who you are.

This man is guilty of murder, regardless. I grieve for Angie's family.


Barbara in Texas   April 17th, 2009 5:23 pm ET

Sex is different than Gender. Being Gay is not the same as being Transgendered. GET IT CORRECT


Bird   April 17th, 2009 5:37 pm ET

I am shocked that people are saying that Angie died 'because she lied to him'. No, Angie died because an intolerant, insecure man let his rage and hate take over. She's dead because he was a violence-prone man who found himself in an unpleasant situation.
He deserves the death sentence.


Jo   April 17th, 2009 5:37 pm ET

There's a fine line between honest disclosure and the gender identification that's necessary to successfully transition from one sex to the other. Responsible physicians require that a sexual reassignment surgery candidate live entirely as a member of their new sex for an extended period of time, prior to surgery. Obviously, sexual reassignment isn't something you want to rush into. You want to live the "new" person as thoroughly as possible before doing anything irreversible, just in case you might want to change your mind.

So, from the transgendered person's standpoint, it isn't practical to have to tell everyone you encounter, "Oh, by the way: I have a penis," or "I don't have a penis," just to make sure that some wacko doesn't bludgeon you to death.

Let's be real: just making that admission in many venues would be sufficient to cause entirely too many people to want to bludgeon you to death.

The burden's on the prosecution to prove that the killer wasn't just dumb as a post, but knew Angie was a transsexual. But premeditated or not, the killing was definitely a hate crime, and is deserving of harsher sentencing.


Ricky   April 17th, 2009 5:38 pm ET

I think hate & murder go hand in hand. One should never take another life with the exception of defending yourself with no other option. I feel so bad for the young girl. There is too much hate, crime and murder in this country and the world. We need love and compassion for everyone.


Chrissy   April 17th, 2009 5:42 pm ET

Male, female, transgendered, gay, straight, black, white, purple... it doesn't matter. This poor human being was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. If anyone thinks that Allen Andrade deserves less than a lifetime in prison for this then they basically believe what he did was justified. I cringe at most of these comments. Some of you commented on how this isn't a "hate" crime. So, does that make it okay? No. It was a hate crime. Andrade knew what he was doing. He got pissed off because Angie didn't tell him something that was her private business. No where in this article does it say that they had sex, or whether or not Angie was post-op. All of these homosexual vs heterosexual comments are irrelevant. If they had had sex, Andrade would have noticed something extra between Angie's legs and if they hadn't then Angie would have said something before they got intimate. It's not an easy thing to say. It's personal and a touchy subject. I can imagine it must be scary for transgendered individuals to tell new people they meet. You don't meet someone and instantly say, "Oh, hey by the way... I'm transgendered." Because of ignorant people like Andrade and most of you all someone has been killed. Just by saying or thinking Andrade had any right to do what he did makes you all just as hateful.


R.   April 17th, 2009 5:51 pm ET

I have to agree with James in Florida. Zapata did not by any stretch deserve to be killed or assulted in any way, and Andrade must bear the full consequence of his actions.

This case highlights a nearly equally serious second issue: Whole-truth consent (for lack of a better term). Most generally accept for instance, that a 40-year-old man in (even polite) pursuit of an 8-year-old girl possesses an excessive advantage and far greater prospect for gratification than the girl does. The girl will not acquire for some time even the minimal amount of skill necessary to fairly engage this man and preserve her long-term well-being at the same time. So we have laws illegalizing this sort of situation.

Perhaps we should recognize something of a similar nature in cases such as these. We should not assault each other, and we should not decieve each other. When a person's natural enjoyment of an intimate encounter in part hinges upon...certain assumptions, if you will (in this case Andrade's desire, excpectation, and assumption that he was being intimate with a woman), then all parties involved should, well, be in the know. Zapate was in the know, Andrade was not, and Andrade's reaction recklessly ended in murder.

When it comes to sexual encounters, I think:
No one should fear being who they are.
No one should give reason for that fear.
No one should feel compelled to dishonesty.
No one should foster that compulsion.


Jesse   April 17th, 2009 5:54 pm ET

I don't care whether the person who is murdered is male, female, transgender, black, white, homosexual, hetersexual or green with antlers, murder is murder. Andrade is no victim and no one gave him the right to take Angie's life. May he be tried and sentenced accordingly.


Rod Bradley   April 17th, 2009 5:55 pm ET

There seems to be some confusion about some of the facts about this trial. First, Angie and the defendent did have sex right before the murder but it was oral sex. So there was no way for the defendent to know that he was really a she. This was made clear in his confession which is not being allowed in and for the life of me I don't understand why. That way the defendent wouldn't have to testify. As it stands now he may have to which will subject him to cross examination. Other than that the lawyer for the defense is doing an excellent job. No matter what anyone thinks, she did lie to the guy about her true sexuality/gender and that fact cannot be gotten around. And another thing, the web site that she advertised on did not mention anything about her gender either. He was living the life as a full blown woman and should not have made the mistake of lying about it. Now does that justify murder..? That will be up to the jury but it certainly doesn't rise to the level of a hate crime.


michelle   April 17th, 2009 5:55 pm ET

OK, I think this story is a lose-lose situation. First, murder is horrible and taking someone's life is awful. This person did not deserve to die. Violence is not the answer when you are angry. Go for a run, work out, punch a pillow, or go on a long drive and scream at the top of your lungs.

There is something else bugging me though. Why did she lie? How would most men react if a "girl" they hooked up with ending up being a man? Why lie about it? That seems unfair and very deceptive.


April   April 17th, 2009 5:56 pm ET

This is a hate crime! And premeditated murder. It, in no way, is the victims fault. She did not lie. Angie was living her "new" life if you'd like to call it that. She made the transition from being male and obviously was comfortable enough to take this POS with her to pay her ticket, under the name Justin. I don't believe a person should have to tell someone that they, at one time, were the opposite gender. That's ridiculous. And transgenders are not gay! I would really like to know where people get their information! They mentally and physically believe they are the opposite sex so making the transition justs them that fulfillment. Shouldn't everyone be happy???


Lori   April 17th, 2009 5:56 pm ET

The posts on this site have not given me alot of hope in humanity


Nightbird   April 17th, 2009 6:38 pm ET

We should teach our children to be themselves and accept each other. Hate is not a family value.


ben   April 17th, 2009 6:47 pm ET

they did say in the trial ( i was watching it today) that the defendant knew the truth about his gender like 30 hours before he killed her. that to me sounds like it was premeditated


Vickster   April 17th, 2009 6:47 pm ET

If the Mr. Andrade killed Zapata in a fit of rage right after finding out that Zapata was biologically male, then why was Zapata apparently killed while sleeping, as indicated by sister Monica's statement that when they discovered the body, the ankles were crossed - a typical sleeping position for Zapata? If this hypothesis is true, it looks like Mr. Andrade had some "cooling down" time - at least as long as it would take for Zapata to fall asleep.


j   April 17th, 2009 7:03 pm ET

those are on two sides of the spectrum. What does killing have to do with not changing sex? If someone believes that they are haters. Teaching kids to be accepting is what needs to be done. Teaching kids not to change their sex will lead to hate. This is what the right Christian majority is trying to teach.
Acceptance is more important, and that's what should be taught.


srn1962   April 17th, 2009 7:23 pm ET

Though this may not qualify as a hate crime in the eyes of the law, it is murder nonetheless even if the killer felt deceived by the victim. Whether or not the killer was embarrassed, humiliated or felt dirty, as one poster put it, there is no justification for the taking of a human life. He could have walked away and not use violence to resolve his anger.

Every human has a built-in mechanism that enables the use of restraint in situations that require better judgment. This allows us to rationalize behavior and makes us responsible for our actions, thereby making us unique in the animal kingdom. Making wrong decisions or acting irrational will invariabley lead to consequences for which we are indebted to pay, no what the circumstances might be. When in comes to right and wrong, the choices we make will have lasting affects for the rest of our lives.

The killer could have walked away, but instead chose to take matters into his own hands. He must now pay the price for having made a poor decision.


Jerry   April 17th, 2009 7:27 pm ET

Zapata made a mistake. She wasn't upfront. Zapata is entitled to define herself. Andrade did not make a mistake. He killed Zapata because of who she was. That is murder. It is also a horrible hate crime by a weak person.


Chad   April 17th, 2009 7:33 pm ET

An earlier post references racism. While I suppose one could call it racist, the fact that a Hispanic man killed another Hispanic man would seem to indicate otherwise. Doesn't racism generally mean differences of power between peoples of different races?


Ken   April 17th, 2009 7:47 pm ET

It seems to me. That the victim is also responsible for his death. He lied about his gender. Aren't there web sites and groups the victim could have joined where others would like having a relationship with a transgender. I admit that no one should be murdered. But the suspect probably went temporarily insane after finding out. This is not a hate crime.


pilar   April 17th, 2009 8:01 pm ET

I do believe this man must spend the rest of his life in prison. Angie was a human being and NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE THEY WAY Angie did.


LOCALOKA   April 17th, 2009 8:14 pm ET

HE KNEW IT WAS A GUY ...
COME ONNN ...
WAS THE "GIRLS" VOICE REALLY GIRLEY ???
THEY MUST OF TALKED ON THE FONE B4 MEETING !!!
BUT WHETHER HE KNEW THE VICTIM WAS NOT A GIRL, HE TOOK THAT PERSONS LIFE !!!
AND I BELIEVE WHETHER A HATE CRIME OR NOT HE COMMITED A CRIME !!! PERIOD !!!


NOT A HATE CRIME   April 17th, 2009 8:23 pm ET

Angie should have told Allen the truth, UPFRONT! Failure to disclose her original gender was not only deception at one of the highest levels, but dangerous and she knew it.
This was not a hate crime. Allen did not intend to find and harm a transgender person. It appears that he was actually searching for a heterosexual relationship.
Angie committed a crime of the heart. Allen committed murder. This was a crime of passion, or even temporary insanity (come on now -surprise you’re not straight!?)
The killing likely had more to do with the way he felt about himself, than the hate he felt for Angie. !Abstinence people! Sad.


HK   April 17th, 2009 8:38 pm ET

DK, people are born with many forms of biological and chemical disparities. So a person with an inherited heart disease should be taught to not have a surgery??


Lee   April 17th, 2009 8:42 pm ET

This is a hate crime. People can kill out of extreme jealousy, greed, mental disorder, self-defense, etc. But the motive here is hate toward a particular group of people. As long as there is hate, there will always be Andrade and Angie. Andrade's reaction came from the hate and values that's directly or indirectly taught and seared into his mind–by society


pentecostalmama   April 17th, 2009 8:45 pm ET

I have big issues with this case being labeled a hate crime issue. I think had the victim not tried to conceal the issue of gender then things would have turned out differently. If a man wants to have sex with another man, that's between two consenting adults; however, if a man wants to have sex with a woman and the woman is really a man, that's sort of like rape in my book - it wasn't what was bargained for in the first place.

If the accused had been a man who caught his wife in the sack with another man so he went nuts and thumped them both in the head with a fire extinguisher, it would have been a crime of passion. To turn this into a hate issue is beyond.


Chelle   April 17th, 2009 9:07 pm ET

This is so sad. I do not think Angie should have had to die because someone couldn't handle the truth. Love can come in any shape or form. These two met on a social networking site, obviously hit it off, so they met up in person. Whether or not Allen knew she was biologically a male, he had some sort of feelings for her. Allen is a murderer. That's all there is to it. I don't know if I agree it was a hate crime, because any crime is a hate crime. But to bludgeon a person with a fire extinguisher ... what is his problem? I hope he is sent away for a long time. I also hope that Angie's family and friends can feel like justice was served.


JD   April 17th, 2009 10:38 pm ET

I dont think its really a hate crime ...more of anger over being decieved


nicholas severn   April 17th, 2009 11:11 pm ET

I'm deeply troubled by the level of ignorance shown by many of the posters here. Motive and method has been a mitigating or aggravating factor in western jurisprudence for over 2000 years.

If the motive was hate and disgust based on the victim's identity and the method was to beat her to death he deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law.


ellen   April 18th, 2009 1:02 am ET

first thing: beth you are my favorite correspondent. I wondered during the trial did anyone notice how nervous the defendent was. He kept messing with his hands and face and on shot it showed his hands shanking really bad. If you look at the defendent at first he looks very intimidatiing and not someone who you would want to be alone with. I think this was a crime of passion and also a hate crime. From his background you know that he would never want his male friends to know that this happened to him. I'm sure he will be tormented when he goes to prison (if he does) by the inmates and will never be able to live this down no matter how mean they think he is. because of his background I do not think anything less than for him to kill Angie,


Mary   April 18th, 2009 1:06 am ET

I hope the murderer gets some psychiatric help, regardless of trial outcome. He's probably very disturbed about their sexual encounter and needs help (obviously he's disturbed, as he killed Angie Zapata).
While he may be traumatized from being tricked into a sexual situation he did not fancy, that does NOT excuse murder. That does not somehow make this girls death less tragic. Too bad she died before she realized that there were people out there she wouldn't have to lie to.


Chuck   April 18th, 2009 1:15 am ET

It has not been established that there was any deceit at all on the part of the victim. These claims rely solely on the word of the suspect, whose integrity is extremely dubious. The victim will never be able to give his/her side of the story and deserves at least the benefit of the doubt.


bobsd   April 18th, 2009 2:43 am ET

Simple question to those who think Angie somehow deserved to be murdered because she wasn't truthful. If YOU had just been intimate with her and later found out that she was a male, would YOU have grabbed a fire extinguisher, and bludgeoned her to death, and oh, by the way, finished her off after you found out she was still breathing? Well? Or would you have gone, this is screwed, I’m outta here. Better? So stop saying that Allen Andrade’s actions were understandable or reasonable. Unless you consider it self defense of his ego, it was murder. Angie did not show good judgment and like many people, did not consider the risk of online meetings … but the accepted penalty for stupid actions can’t be murder, or most of us would be dead.


dg   April 18th, 2009 4:15 am ET

I have never heard of a violent crime done in love. To classify any crime by an emotion is for the thought police.


Jimmy D.   April 18th, 2009 4:22 am ET

This should not be a first degree murder trail but a manslaughter trail. For starters he was lied to he thought he was with a woman second Angie/Justin raped him because of the lie that was told third a straight man does not want to have sex with another man fourth he was violated as human also. Every body says Angie/Justin was what about the defendent in this was he violated as a man and human being. How would you feel if a man or woman lied to you about what they was and you were straight. I'm not condoning what he did by killing this person and he should spend time in jail but not life in prison.


Dan   April 18th, 2009 5:50 am ET

I am disgusted by the ignorance of the majority of the commenters. I agree that Angie should have been upfront and told him that she was biologically male before getting romantically involved, but there is no way that is justifiable for murder. All of you people who insist on using male pronouns and Angie's birth name are so ignorant and disrespectful. Biological sex does not determine someone's gender identity. It's not your place to decide, period. I'm appalled at the amount of people trying to justify this senseless murder. It was a despicable act by an insecure, pathetic excuse for a man. I can understand him being angry and confused at her not being upfront, but beating her to death is inexcusable. I believe that this man should be beaten to death. He is NOT the victim. Angie was a beautiful young WOMAN, who may have made some poor choices, but did NOT deserve death. You all disgust me.


Mary Joan Mueller   April 18th, 2009 6:01 am ET

Every murder is a HATE CRIME,for the simple reason the victum is denied their right to life.
Justin Zapata a male wanted to be female and was poseing as a female.According to the testimony that has come out in this trial so far,Justin had not under went a sex change operation.There was also testimony that the defendant had known for at least 36 hours prior to the murder that the victum was a male and not a female.
THe victum chose to decieve the defendant. It is not unusal in society that people purposely lie and decieve,to gain the upper hand of opportunity.
I can understand the defendant becomeing ANGRY learning of the deception;but there was no Justification for this murder.All the defendant had to do was just 'walk away'.
I have caught people in their web of lies and I just simply have nothing more to do with them.
To murder is a senseless act.People who purposely weave a web of deciet/lies,get caught in their own game;as did this victum.
I do hope the prosecutions WINS on the 1st degree murder charge.


rina   April 18th, 2009 7:18 am ET

i think he should be charged with 1st degree murder....its only obviously watching the trial that he knew beforehand that she was bioligically a male i mean comeon now how are you going to go to court with someone who is supposed to be a guy and you hear "the perople vs. justin zapata" thats not going to sturr up some thoughts??there could have been a better way to resolve this situation one that eliminates the violent act...i mean he did have enough time to just leave... its so sad that theat adnrada goes on looking like he doent fell any remorse for what he did and thats truely a monster inside


tessiexo   April 18th, 2009 12:47 pm ET

I think it's terrible that people keep using angie's birth name.. she changed, why cant people respect that even after she's passed away?? This man should be charged with a hate crime, and dont tell me it wasnt premeditated. Passable is one thing but 3 years on E isnt going to totally eliminate all signs of the past.


john   April 18th, 2009 2:20 pm ET

While the defendant, Allen Andrade, committed an awful crime and the victim, Justin “Angie” Zapata, did not deserved to be killed, I still find that the defendant was betrayed by the victim. The victim should have told the defendant he/she is transgender. If the victim had lured the defendant and did not disclose the truth about his/her real gender and identity, this is a serious betrayal in one’s trust. Being betrayed is an awful feeling, and there is rage and uncontrollable anger and out of body experience that take over a betrayed person.

The victim drove over 100 miles (50 miles each way) to bring over the defendant to his/her place, to spend intimate time without telling the defendant of being transgender. If the victim could not admit it to the defendant, the victim had no business luring a straight person.

Justin “Angie” Zapata lived in deceit and gives transgender people very bad name.


Aster   April 18th, 2009 2:42 pm ET

To everyone who said that SHE was being deceitful:

Transgendered people are their gender, what they identify as. The LIE was when she was forced to live as "male" for most of her life. The years after she transitioned were the most honest.

It's not safe for people to be upfront about this- as we've just seen it can get you KILLED if you aren't careful.


Ashlee   April 18th, 2009 4:58 pm ET

"This is a sex crime committed by a transgender …they shoiuld be held to sex crimes just like rapist or pediphiles its not a hate crime its a sex crime."

You cannot be serious.


wvu student   April 18th, 2009 6:36 pm ET

Many comments have been saying that Angie lied about her gender. This is not true. Gender is socially constructed (at least that's what I have been taught in my 5 years of sociology/anthropology courses). Since Angie was living as a female, and it was socially accepted by those who met her that she was female, her gender was female. No misrepresentation to be found. Also, as far as I know, there is no law that makes it so you MUST tell anyone that you are trans gender.


Jade   April 18th, 2009 8:01 pm ET

It was a hate crime, not all murders are a hate crime, hard to believe that, but some people actually love who they kill.
If he wasn't into what he ended up with, he should have just said his choice words and walked away from it. I'm sorry, but that's what you get when you meet people on the Internet or on a chat line.
Also, who was he kidding when he went with Angie to answer Justin's traffic ticket?
He was a ticking time bomb, I'm pretty confident he would have eventually done something to someone else.


kit   April 18th, 2009 9:36 pm ET

I dont believe some people here know or realize what a hate crime really is...if this person was killed because he was a trans-gender then that is a hate crime just as someone being killed for being of another race or religion. Also, if that is so and Allen DID know almost 2days before hand then THAT is where the PREMEDITATED comes in. It wasnt "spur" of the moment or heat of passion or however you descrie it. IF he killed her for being trans-gender and IF he had prior knowledge of that status then yes it was premeditated. THAT being said...i feel he should get the max for murder. NO matter the reason, he still took a life. My condolences to Justins family and friends...I have been to one too many funerals this year alredy and i dont wish it on anyone.


amandaaaaah   April 18th, 2009 11:25 pm ET

i understand that he was mad and sure she shouldn't have lied but to kill her is going to the extreme! maybe you should stop meeting ppl online and maybe you won't come into an encounter with someone who is really a man..try it.


N. Light   April 19th, 2009 12:39 pm ET

How can any of you reading this think that what that man did to Angie was justified? How can you think that the murder of a young Girl is justified..? As a trans man, I ask you, what do you expect of us? Do you want us to walk around with signs on saying "transgendered"? Last time I checked, we aren't living in Nazi Germany...


Jason   April 19th, 2009 2:22 pm ET

This was a reaction to a disgusting deceit bordering by abomination, arousing a negative passion with almost every normal person.

Should be a murder in the second degree.


Melissa Dunagan   April 19th, 2009 10:07 pm ET

Angie had no more control of being a transsexual that anyonr has of being bornwhite or being born black. Medicinal science has proven than being a transsexual is a medicinal condition. We are not an abolition to God. I know that people that are not born transsexual can not understand what it is like, but just because you do not understand us does not give you the right to hurt us are to kill us. Nor does it give you the right to hate us. Everone on this world is a child of God whether they believe in God or not. To hate anyone far any reason is a sin in God's eyes. If anyone hates a another living being thet are sinners. This man had no rigth to kill Angie and if he gets away with murder here on this earth God will punish him and all of you that hate. That you can bet on. As a person that believe very much in God and Jesus Christ I am ashamed of other people that claim to be Christen with os much hate in their heart. Take care


Eric Sloane   April 20th, 2009 9:41 am ET

You have two problems here one is a transgender person second the fact that the transgender person did not reveal at the start or the relationship that she had been a man and now was transgender. By doing this in my opinion it was like playing with fire. We all know that some people don’t react well to surprises. A transgender person needs to let be know at the start of all relationship. By no means does the fact that the fact that did reveal it is a cause or excuse for violence.


dk   April 20th, 2009 10:19 am ET

I don't think it is a hate crime. Murder is murder and should be punished accordingly but frist degree I don't know about that I have experience husbands who killed their spouses for cheating and it didn't happen right away it just got to a point where they decided that was it. Wrong yes no one should take anothers life but it happens all the time. This is unfortunate but a part of the world we live in and not all people know that life goes on and there is someone out there for you! I feel bad for Angie and all involved but her sexuality may not be the entire reason for the act alone and I feel like it is all that is being made the issue because it can.


bill   April 20th, 2009 10:52 am ET

as a person who did'nt even know what " i'm gay " mean't till i was 18 , by 19 i learned all about homosexuality from my older brother who was gay and told me before i visited him in chicago. I think it's great that the family excepted her for what she wanted to be in her life. From my experience from when i was younger i found i can tell the difference know matter how pretty they are and if i can't tell all i got to do is here them talk. I was told that a lot of your hookers in chicago are transexuals and the johns never know so if she lied or not its was very hard for here to tell the truth because she looked at her self as a female her whole life. The fact is that he killed her an it was a very brutal crime ,everything else doesn't matter he could have walked away he should get the maxim punishment , if it takes adding hatecrime to the punishment so be it..


amber   April 20th, 2009 11:22 am ET

In no way do i agree with being deceptive and not telling someone that you are transgender, but it to kill someone is outrageous .So now he will be in jail for a very long time and a girl dead for nothing, just because you might be embarrassed.Get Over IT!!!!


joanne   April 20th, 2009 11:28 am ET

Hate is just 1 of the many negative feelings born with every man. If cultivated it causes harm to inflict serious injury not only to other people but to the family itself. Parents aren't to be blamed, I always think that what I was before was because of them but what I am now is because of ME


joanne   April 20th, 2009 12:21 pm ET

What kind of website did they meet? I wonder ig they "met" on a trangendered website?


Larry Garrison   April 20th, 2009 12:32 pm ET

All I can say is if the defendant did not know the "true" nature of the victim after being with her/him for awhile prior to the murder then what can one say? Lack of sophistication? My guess is he is adamantly homophobic (for reasons known only to him) and did not have the forewithall to just speak his mind, walk out and write it off to the deceptions of cyberspace. The victim, on the other hand, having undoubtedly run into situations prior to this one, should have understood , for personal safety, just psychologically wanting to be a woman does not a true woman make and withholding full disclosure can have potentially drastic consequences. The reason certain crimes are identified as "Hate" crimes and others not is due to some jurors being unable to override personal prejudice in such cases: despite what they say in the voir dire process.


Julia   April 20th, 2009 12:43 pm ET

I think the defense is making a mistake calling Angie by the name Justin. If the defense drove home the point that everyone thought she was a girl, and that even her family called her she, I think it would help their case. If they want to say he "snapped" wouldn't it make more sense to call her she? Portray her as completely convincing, as someone their client was trying to spend time with and get more intimate with, then she tells him, "Oh, by the way, I'm a guy. I also think the defense would seem more respectful. I don't like the way they refer to Angie as he. It sounds as though they are trying to belittle her. It sounds really nasty. Almost like THEY think she deserved to be treated like that.


tjances   April 20th, 2009 12:43 pm ET

When should a "transgender adult" disclose this very sensitive, personal and anti-social condition? Whenever they're asked! When they're not asked, that individual should disclose it when being pursued or pursuing companionship of the same sex, it is ultimately that persons responsibility to disclose.
If I pick up an apple' I don't expect to bite into it and taste an orange, an apple is what I know i have! If I show physical interest in someone, respect is what is expected. I deserve to know immediately!
It does not justify killing someone, although, the heat of passion plays a role and minimizes the the degree of guilt. A punishment is still due!


Val   April 20th, 2009 12:48 pm ET

I agree with DK and dbf!
There is no excuse for the rage inside Allen to murder another human. There was no excuse for Angie not to inform Allen of herself being a male. Ugh... What is wrong with us!


klm   April 20th, 2009 1:01 pm ET

It's shocking how many people think that it's ok to give someone the death penalty for lying (if in fact she did). People who know nothing about sex (male, female) and gender (man, woman) should educate themselves on the subject. And people who've never experienced the lack of congruence between biological sex and gender identity that Angie and millions of others do should just be quiet — they don't know what they're talking about. It's tragic that Angie wrongly thought that she'd be safe, but that does not in any way mitigate, much less justify, the fact that it was murder.


TM from PA   April 20th, 2009 1:12 pm ET

So a 32 year old man who has a decade long history of burglary and assault meets an 18 year old woman on the internet, goes to her apartment for a couple of days, beats her to death, robs her and steals her car...all because he was deceived?

And I guess he was so polite since he didn't even try feeling Angie up during their intimate moment(s).

This was not manslaughter, it's murder in the 1st degree, and Angie, or if you prefer, Justin, DID NOT DESERVE IT! You people are sick and need psychiatric treatment if you believe otherwise. The murderer is not the victim; he made the choice to KILL Angie, as we see when he starts to gather HER things to leave, realizes she could possibly still be alive, and delivers one final blow to this young person's life.

This is a sad story, and for anyone using religion or the Bible to justify the murderer's actions need to stop. The Bible talks about people needing forgiveness and love, needing Jesus...NOT death for being different than you!


terry   April 20th, 2009 1:28 pm ET

I can see that unfortunately Homophobia is alive and going strong. Lots of people are ignorant and need to be educated.


klm   April 20th, 2009 1:51 pm ET

To the guys who think Angie was "still a guy", consider this: if you, through disease or accident, lost your boy parts, would that mean you're not a man anymore? No, of course not. You'd still feel like a man, self-identify as a man, and you'd still be a man.

Your gender identity wouldn't be determined by what you're sitting on. You just know who you are, and so did Angie.


Steven   April 20th, 2009 2:13 pm ET

This is exactly why our country is so screwed up, reading some of these comments make me sick to my stomach. I have two honorable discharges from military service with over 30 years in police service and I cannot believe what I am reading.

Some of the comments are very intelligent, but the ones that bash the victim are absolutely wicked. Allen goes on line to meet someone, that someone is Angie. So, he decides to date her not knowing what sex she is. Angie should have told him once they met, but if Angie believes that she is a women then should she have too? This is the debate not all of this other BS.

Murder is Murder and Allen should pay if found guilty then he should be charged with not only a capital crime but also a hate crime because people, now clear your thoughts and read, he killed her because of her sexual orientation, that is a hate crime plus murder.

If found guilty, and I'm sure he will, he should receive the death penalty. Angie was seeking a relationship not death by another. Get off of the racism gay stuff folks because it's not cutting it! In fact, in this day and age, it's make some folks look like idiots....


Chris, Kenosha WI   April 20th, 2009 2:25 pm ET

My heart goes out to "Angie's" family. What a terrible vicious death this young person suffered. I am a straight female; however, I believe it is each individual's right to do what ever they want to do. That is what makes our country such a great country, that we as individuals have the right to the pursuit of happiness. I don’t think that right is limited to only straight people. It really saddens me that there are such hateful people in this country. Having said that, I do believe that Angie, or any transgender person really does have a responsibility to tell the person or persons they are close to. I don’t think they have to let the whole world know, but when the person knows they are becoming friends with someone I do believe they should tell them.

I believe that if Andrade had spent three days and nights with Angie before he killed her that he had to have known on the first day/night that Angie was physically a man. Usually there are several signs such as the size of the feet or hands, an Adams apple, the way they walk. I do not believe that he did not know. I don’t believe that he just snapped, but that he “hates” the type of person Angie was so much that he had every intention of killing her from the moment he had met her in person.


Charles   April 20th, 2009 2:27 pm ET

This is a crime of passion, which happens all the time when a lover is lied too or tricked. In this case the lie was the “GOD GIVEN” sex of the victim. Forget about the defendants past, we have no idea what type of feelings he started to have for the victim. Justin played a deadly game the could of been avoided by telling the TRUTH. I don’t excuse Zapata for the killing but I don’t believe it’s a 1st degree murder offense, more like 2nd degree man slaughter. Trust the family has been coached well by the prosecution to push the idea of Justin being a woman which is totally not true. This was a crime of emotions & passion and should be judge as such.


Sarah   April 20th, 2009 5:18 pm ET

Other issues aside, how are they certain the killer surmised that Angie was (born) male simply upon discovering that her legal first name was Justin? It's somewhat common for girls to be given names which are traditionally male.

There's a young girl in our town whose first name is Justin. My friend's mother is named Steve, and I once knew a male/female married couple whose legal first names were both Michael.

Some years back, most Taylors and Jordans were boys, and there are lots of girls with those names now, too.

I don't think that the killer simply being aware of Angie's "boyish" legal first name (assuming he became aware of it when he accompanied her to the courthouse) was necessarily enough on its own to make him aware that she'd been born male.


Jamie   April 20th, 2009 5:32 pm ET

i believe this is wrong very wrong and i feel for the girl and her family very much!!!!!


Miah   April 20th, 2009 5:50 pm ET

I truly believe that this was a crime of emotions and passion. When I speak on this case I am being open minded becasue I do share my life with friends that are transexual, gay, and lesbians. It is evident that you can look at this woman and it is very hard to tell that she was a man at birth. I don't see this a hate crimewhats so ever because this man was willing to spend time with someone that he thought was a woman. If he wanted to be with a man he would have. Transgender or not the fact remains that this woman was a man at birth and he must have felt violated and deceived to find out other. It was also evident that Zapata's sister made sure to tell her sister to make sure to disclose the fact that she was a transgender to prevent this from happening. Sad story no one deserve to have their life taken but in the heat of passion anyhting is possible.


So   April 20th, 2009 8:08 pm ET

If you believe in God, you should know that He didn't make any mistakes in creation. Male, and Female...period!

Melissa Dunagan April 19th, 2009 10:07 pm ET

Angie had no more control of being a transsexual that anyonr has of being bornwhite or being born black. Medicinal science has proven than being a transsexual is a medicinal condition. We are not an abolition to God. I know that people that are not born transsexual can not understand what it is like, but just because you do not understand us does not give you the right to hurt us are to kill us. Nor does it give you the right to hate us. Everone on this world is a child of God whether they believe in God or not. To hate anyone far any reason is a sin in God’s eyes. If anyone hates a another living being thet are sinners. This man had no rigth to kill Angie and if he gets away with murder here on this earth God will punish him and all of you that hate. That you can bet on. As a person that believe very much in God and Jesus Christ I am ashamed of other people that claim to be Christen with os much hate in their heart. Take care


Wayne Deja   April 20th, 2009 8:26 pm ET

I knew a guy in Oregon that had gone out with someone he thought was a girl,turned out later that night,it was a guy...he got up,and left the house...He did not hurt,or kill her...Andrade should be punished for what he did....life in prison...no parole.


Theresa Natoli   April 20th, 2009 10:08 pm ET

If the defendant admitted to taking the fire extinguisher, why did the defense attorney question the witness as if to say that there is no proof that Angie's was taken by him? Even though it's evidence that isn't admitted, I thought lawyers were not allowed to knowingly try to deceive the jury. It has caused me to lose respect for this defense team. I thought that defense attorneys subscribed to certain ethics, i.e. not defending someone as innocent if they knew for a fact the person was guilty.

Theresa Natoli, Phoenix Arizona


joe   April 21st, 2009 5:00 am ET

Of course it is not her fault. Being transgender is NOT a choice. You are born in the wrong anatomical body. Thant is not what defines gender. If a man loses his pen*s in an accident is he a woman because he doesn't have working "male"genitalia? That is absurd. Should Angie have worn a pink triangle on her shirt to identify her to everyone that she was indeed transgendered? This type of thing was done before. People were killed before fore being transgendered, gay, lesbian, dark skinned, jewish guess what? These were HATE CRIMES. Being transgendered and being gay are not the same thing. One is about gender and one is about what type of gender you are sexually atracted to. There are NO laws to protect transgendered individuals. They can be fired, harrassed, ridiculed, beaten, and murdered. To make things even worse, after a lifetime of taunting, beatings, isolation, depression, lonliness, you get blamed for someone else killing you – you're only crime was trying to be true to yourself. My heart goes out to Angie and her family. I hope people will educate themselves and practice tolerance and acceptance.


Pam   April 21st, 2009 9:28 am ET

She, out of respect of the family


Katie R.   April 21st, 2009 9:34 am ET

In respect to the deceased and the deceases' family, you would think the defense would get over themselves and call the victim what she would have wanted to have been called.


Dammer   April 21st, 2009 9:45 am ET

I believe that they should be referring to the victim as a "he". This trial should be based on the facts, at this victim was not female. That said, it doesn't matter what the sex of the person was, it's still a crime that should be punished accordingly, though I do not feel it was premeditated.


sheryl koenig   April 21st, 2009 10:01 am ET

should angie be referred to as he or she.....born a man...reguardless of any make over...male is male....


Jennifer   April 21st, 2009 10:06 am ET

Yes, I think it was a hate crime. Zapata may have been a he, but he felt emotionally a she. And a she is what she was! From what I've know, Zapata was very open and honest about being a transgender. The jerk killed her because he could not accept the fact that he liked it, or he was afraid people would find out. The death penalty is too good for him. Let him rot in jail for the rest of his life!


Helen   April 21st, 2009 11:03 am ET

First of all we don't know that Angie didn't tell him. There is alot in this case we don't know, most importantly what was said between the two online. I believe that he knew period. It is obvious that he is not sure of his sexual orientation. One thing that is for sure is Angie was! I hope this man gets what he deserves. a long time to think about it!!


Lorie From Oklahoma   April 21st, 2009 11:42 am ET

This killing was very wrong. But maybe hooking up with someone on the net and not being honest about who you are before having intercourse part of this the exchange of thoughts ,and feelings. That's a huge issue to go to bed with someone and later find out that the person is a transgender . Maybe he could have saved his life by being forthcoming from the start. In reality how much could you no from talking on the internet especially if your not honest. I hope the deception was worth his life...


jchristin   April 21st, 2009 1:34 pm ET

The defendant admits committing the murder.

The defendant admits 'losing' it.

The defendant now deserves 'losing' is freedom for his lifetime for the lifetime of a woman he took.

As I understand it, being transgendered is not a sexual identity, but a condition of the body that grossly affects the person's ability to live as freely as they may otherwise, provided they had not been born with a physical condition that prevents them from enjoying the liberties of living as freely as those without the condition.

When transgenderism is classified or expressed as a sexuality or alternative lifestyle, a gross injustice robs those with this condition from the dignity they deserves. Not all persons with the condition participate in the gay community, perform in gay sponsored beauty shows, work as female mimics, or center their lives in some type of 'alternative' lifestyle, nor allow the condition to become the central focus of their lives, but move forward and lead challenging and productive lives. It is too bad that the sensationalism of this condition did not vanish with Christine Jorgenson.

Perhaps the defendant will experience his punishment in prison with the same type of hatred he experienced upon his victim. But this is not the solution. The solution is cultural in nature, beginning with early education and awareness. The generational wiping of the slate clean of hatred and prejudice. Perhaps in another three or four generations this hope will be fulfilled.


Nicole C   April 21st, 2009 1:42 pm ET

This has gone to absurd. So having ovaries or testes defines our sex? Well my husband has had cancer and lost his testes and prostate. Wait until I tell him he has to wear a dress. That will put him in the grave.

Next, I don't see where anyone has a right to "classify" someone else according to your personal standards. If SHE felt that SHE was born a SHE, then it is no skin off your nose to give her the respect SHE deserves. To do otherwise is disrespectful to GOD.

What difference does it make that he knew or didn't know that SHE was born male? HE KILLED HER. That is murder, and it totally surprises me that any of you can find in your righteous minds any means to justify that. So if I went into a bank and robbed it, killed the patrons and tellers, I can get off because no one specifically told me that was wrong???? What is the matter with you people? Get a grip or a clinical psychologist for Pete's sake.


elmer dogg   April 21st, 2009 2:41 pm ET

He didn't kill "her" because "she" was gay. He killed her because "she" represented her gender and had sexual relations with him. That's not a "hate crime", per se. It's a crime of passion.


Daniel   April 21st, 2009 4:02 pm ET

The correct pronouns are SHE and her…for this victim. Please Repect

I am get sick by the ignorance of the majority of the words. I agree that Angie should have been honest and told him that she was biologically male before getting him. but there is no way that is justifiable to batter her to death.

He should be given the death penalty for this hate crime.

I would like to tattoo him with my ring on his nose

I offer my respect and condolences to the family and friends of Ms. Zapata.


Tommy B.   April 21st, 2009 7:51 pm ET

an Awful tragedy. Although she (he if u prefer) should have been honest about being transgendered, No one deserves to be murdered, period. It raises a red flag for me, As a gay male. I'm fearful of being the victim of a more "typical version" of a hate crime- those who might try to harm me simply because I am gay. It's sad for anyone to have to ever be fearful of others for just being themselves.


Mr Y. G. Ansara   April 22nd, 2009 1:42 am ET

We at the LGBT Society at the University of Surrey, UK, stand by Angie Zapata and her family. We hope that her murderer receives suitable punishment for killing her and reject the notion that "trans panic" is an acceptable defence for hate crimes. We are appalled that anyone in 2009 could think it's acceptable to use the wrong pronoun, wrong name, and wrong gender descriptor for a person of trans experience, particularly in a legal defence designed to help someone get away with (literally) murder.


Nicolle H   April 22nd, 2009 9:42 am ET

I believe he was probably looking for a sexual relationship with a homosexual male or a male-to-female transgender person. He found Angie and obviously she was what he was looking for. However after spending time together their relationship change from one that was strictly sexual to one with feelings. He began to care for her and maybe even start to love her but, because of Andrade hatred of LGBT people he probably became disgusted with himself. So in order to rid himself of his “gay” feelings he had to get rid of Angie. Therefore his hatred of himself lead to the brutal murder of Angie Zapata.


Lorie From Oklahoma   April 22nd, 2009 11:47 am ET

Nicole C-Sorry about your Husband that's not the same thing at all. But still you call him husband why because his is a male correct?. That is an absurd comparison! I guess to please your one sided view and politically correct appetite you will sacrifice your on gender. I f you rob a bank the headline would read Women Robs Bank! Maybe everyone should take a good look between their legs since there may be some confusion...You read what you wanted to read and ran with it. I don't condone any murderous act.. It could have been prevented if he were honest. Seems to me your making it about you and not or opinion. the one that murdered the families loved on is the one on trial...


rugbymom   April 22nd, 2009 11:54 am ET

I came across this trial late in the process and have been trying to wrap my head around just the facts. Did Justin have any female agumentation done? Did he have implants or did he just wear falsies? I actually thought the sister Stephanie was a male till I heard her speak at the trial. Where is Justin's father? Too bad Sister and brother couldn't switch bodies. Each wanted to be what the other was. Sad case.


Chuck   April 23rd, 2009 11:33 am ET

I for one am sick of these criminal defense attorneys who go on television after their clients are convicted to talk about how 'nice' their clients are. Andrade is not a nice man. He has a history of violence and brutally killed a woman who was already living in difficult circumstances. Nice people don't do that, and 'nice' people don't repeatedly lie to law enforcement officials after they are caught. I'm all for honoring people's constitutional rights, but this is not my definition of nice.


henry cedric   April 23rd, 2009 12:51 pm ET

I watched this trial and the only thing the prosecutors had was the word "hate". And they used it over and over again. If the defendant had taken the stand and admitted, what any reasonable person who watched the trial could see, that he actually "loved" the victim, it would have capsized the prosecutors entire argument. I believe the only reason he didn't say he loved the victim, and for the same reason he said the hateful things afterwards, is because he did not want to be outed.


One TransWomen   June 22nd, 2009 2:21 am ET

Being the transgendered woman that I am it is easy to to jump to the conclusion that this was a hate crime, but the fact being that I do not know all the details of this case I can not at this time and will not say that it was. I believe that justice must and will be served in this case. I also the believe that the young man who comitited this horrible crime should and will be given a fair trial. Who knows what really went on here. We all know the outcome of the story but we do not yet know what lead up to it. Temporary Insantity might have played a key role in this murder but if that being the case it does not mean that this young man should be given any lighter of a sentence. We need to rid the world of Hate and it is truely our fought as a society that these tragic events continue to occur in the first place. Ego is an enity that has been corupting the mind since the dawn of day and Now is the time to free ourselves from it. It's time to step up and raise our children not to hate. So get down off that cross and come fight with us.



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