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January 23, 2009

No chance to rescue fire victims, witness says

Posted: 10:03 AM ET

LAWRENCE, Massachusetts–A fire fighter testifying Thursday in the arson murder trial of Kathleen Hilton, accused of setting a 1999 fire that killed five people, said he tried three times to reach the family trapped on the third floor, and finally managed to reach them only to find their bodies piled like mannequins by the window.

Crime scene where 5 people died

“There was zero visibility,” said Kevin Bradley of the Lynn Fire Department. “I crawled across the floor. I felt an arm. I couldn’t see anything. I pulled it toward me. There were four or five inches of water in the room. I looked across the room and I could see the victims.

“They looked like mannequins. There was an adult; the male was closest to the window, and the mother and three kids.”

He choked up slightly as he recalled his own children who appeared to be in the same age range as the children. “I said a little prayer,” he said. The veteran fire fighter chose not to report the finding over his radio and told his supervisor when he reached the ground.

Other fire fighters who responded recalled the family’s cries for help. Lt. Dan Lozzi said they tried to reach them by crawling up the front staircase, but were forced to retreat because the smoke was overwhelming. Lozzi said they attempted their entry by crawling on their hands and knees up the staircase.

Lozzi recalled first observing the fire on the first floor on the right side of the building but it was burning so intensely that it was blowing out all the windows on the first floor. He said he was surprised at the speed at which the fire was “flashing over” spreading from room to room. He did not recall flames in the staircase leading to the second and third floor apartment dwellings. This testimony is expected to help support the defense's contention that the evidence does not support the prosecution theory based on Hilton’s alleged confession of where she started the fire. Hilton has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

Another fire fighter, Michael O’Connor said that when he arrived the fire was burning intensely around the porch area, and it was so hot that he and others had to don their masks at the bottom of the stairs before they could proceed to the porch area. He said the fire appeared to be blasting from the first floor apartment, so much so that he kicked down the door and hosed that area first.

Their efforts would quickly turn from offensive to defensive when the fire chief deemed the fire too dangerous to attempt any entry rescue, and ordered all fire fighters out of the house. It would appear that by the time the order was issued the fire had already claimed the lives of Heriberto Feliciano and his family.

The jury also heard from Jose Santiago, whose 11-year-old daughter was killed in the fire. Santiago said that he had been to the apartment at about 9:00 p.m. that night and when he left at 10:30 p.m. everything appeared to be fine. Prosecutors are expected to use Santiago’s testimony to bolster Charles Loayza’s alibi that he was at work when the fire was set, making his mother the likely arsonist.

Stay tuned to In Session for in-depth coverage of this trial.

–In Session staff

Filed under: Trials


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Virginia   January 23rd, 2009 10:28 am ET

i HAVE A MILDLY RETARDED 39 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER.AND AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE WAY SHE BEHAVES AND ACTS. HER I.Q. IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THIS DEFENDANT. EVEN THOUGH SHE IS MENTALLY CHALLENGED INTELLECTUALLY, SHE CERTAINLY KNOWS RIGHT FROM WRONG. I DON'T THINK THIS DEFENDANT'S MENTALLY CAPACITY IS A REASON TO SAY SHE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS DOING. OR IS A DEFENSE AS TO HER INNOCENCE. REGARDLESS OF HOW SHE LOOKS OR ACTS.

Cathy Burke   January 23rd, 2009 10:52 am ET

Hi, just a note on Ms. Hilton's behavior during the arguements outside of jury. Ms. Hilton was giggling and appears to be a person that would be influenced to do something under the power of suggestion. She appears to be someone that would benefit from longterm psychological help, inpatient of course

Jeri LaPatra   January 23rd, 2009 11:15 am ET

I believe this woman is guilty and even though she does not have a high IQ, she knows the difference between right or wrong and she knew there were problems in the relationship with her son and his girlfriend and she took it upon herself to set the fire.

Erlinda Jones   January 23rd, 2009 11:45 am ET

Kathleen Hilton is no more mental than some of the people you see in the streets of today, how can her lawyers use this for her defense. Give me a break, she's guilty!!!!

cynthia molina   January 23rd, 2009 11:51 am ET

i don't think the mother did it , some mother's will do anything for their childern because i know my son was murdered in 2002 my brother had something to do with it and my mother covered up for him and she went to prison March 2003 and got out in 2008

kelly r Oswego N.Y   January 23rd, 2009 12:19 pm ET

As a mentally ill person myself I feel she should have been tried right away so she can get proper treatment for her mental illness and from the looks of things that I have seen so far I feel that it was indeed her son and I feel he set the fire before he left for work and the mother did not and is not getting the justice she desreves.

debbie   January 23rd, 2009 12:49 pm ET

Can someone tell me where I can find information on previous trials. I was wondering about the last trial where the girl was accused of suffocating a girl in mud during a fight. Was she convicted?

Beverly   January 23rd, 2009 1:34 pm ET

Yes I would also like to know about the trial of the two brothers from tenn. Who were accused of killing a police officer ?

Leanne R. Purkhiser   January 23rd, 2009 1:58 pm ET

I have a developmentally disabled son with an IQ of 65. He graduated from high school and has a good job. He certainly knows right from wrong, and I certainly believe the Defendant does to. I was angered when I saw the comment on the TV that the Defendant is "facing life in prison" if convicted. In my opinion, she deserves the death penalty. She murdered three precious children and their parents. She is lucky I'm not on the jury.

Mags   January 23rd, 2009 2:10 pm ET

Cathy, I also saw a difference in her behivor this morning during the lawyers arugments. It seemed like she understood what is going on. Other days when I watched it I got the impression she was in la la land. But after this morning I have to question that. But the case needs to be tried just like any other – what was her state of mind at the time? That's one problem with this case being tried so many years later. I do think she has mental problems know but what was she like in 1999?

I feel that she was involved in the arson but am saving my judgement just like the jurors – till I've heard all (most) of the evidence – since CNN doesn't carry the audio all the time.

Judy Maleski Erie PA   January 23rd, 2009 2:14 pm ET

It bothers me that this woman was in jail for a year before her trial. I feel so deeply for the victims but as of now I would have to vote not guilty because there is reasonable doubt in my mind. I would not want to convict for the sake of the victims family if this is the wrong person that set that fire. We shall see what new evidence comes up.

alunatic   January 23rd, 2009 3:45 pm ET

I think the son was angry enough with his ex-girlfriend getting a life away from him. I believe he put the bug in his mentally-ill Mom's ear and she did the heinous deed without a thought to the possible harm to other innocent bystanders.
They are both evil and he should be charged a a conspirator.

Deb I   January 23rd, 2009 4:27 pm ET

Come on, folks, let's wait until there is some real evidence tying this woman to the crime. She seems so confused and ill that I don't believe she could manage to set a fire. There is so much evidence that the son set fires before and was angry and hostile. Had this woman ever been involved in anything violent or illegal? There is something sick about you folks who don't care if there is proof or not.

Karen N in Los Angeles   January 23rd, 2009 4:45 pm ET

Mentally challenged people often know right from wrong. This defendant should get the death penalty in my opinion.

Pandora   January 23rd, 2009 7:12 pm ET

This article made me cry for those poor people. I can tell you all from experiance, I have been in fire like this one. In burned for a long time while we were sleeping, untill a glass door blew out. There was a wind storm going on with gusts up to 50mph. That wind blew in and took the fire over. My husband and I were awaked by a good samaritan pounding on our door. Our one year old child sleeping next to us. There was no way out except our second story window everyting below was burning. There was 0 visibility and we could not breathe. My husband broke the window and we had to jump. Our Angel samaritan caught our son. No sooner had I landed that I saw the flames shooting out the window where we had been. In my opinion, this is one of the worst possible ways to die, especially when you know your children will die too if you can't get out. Your last moments are spent in utter physical and mental anguish.

The death penalty is too good for an arsonist. Unless they are made to die in a burning room

debra linscott   January 23rd, 2009 10:38 pm ET

I have been incarcerated with the defendant Cathy in the past. She has been incarcerated since 1999!!!! That is not justice for her or the families of the victims. I truly believe from the amount of time I spent with her that she does need mental health, but I believe she is innocent of setting this fire. She is covering for her son. How could he sit and watch his mother for this amount of time and not come forward to help her ??? I will pray for the victims in this tragedy Cathy included

Shannon M   January 23rd, 2009 11:03 pm ET

I think she is guilty and they should put her in a institution for the rest of her life!!!

lefty don   January 23rd, 2009 11:11 pm ET

get a life people the son has an alibye... he shouldn't be charged as an conspirator,he was at work and that's that!!!!! Hilton as alot of issues and if you can't tell than you are all crazy!!!!!! but she did not along in prison for 10 years it's wrong and everyone as a right to a speedy trial and she did not get that!!!!!!

mikey   January 24th, 2009 1:43 am ET

really do you guys listen the son didn't do it!!!!!!!!!! he got arrested the next morning so he didn't change from work than had his clothes right at the prison he was in they been saying this for a long time and there's no kind of trace on his cloths.... and how do any of you what there realtionship was like? a woman will say any thing to get a man into trouble when they feeling mood or because she hit first you all don't really know anything and you shouldn't judge a book by what others say

JGM   January 24th, 2009 4:46 am ET

She needs to be put in a supervised lock down adult home for life. She got her jollies and she'll choose to get them again. If we want change in this country we should think about everyone: Including the innocent victims of hideous crimes. Let's also not negate justice that needs to be served upon the 'boyfriend'.

tim   January 25th, 2009 8:39 am ET

i think she is guilty to. If the jury finds her guilty they need to turn her over to us and we will deal with it the ARKANSAS COUNTRY WAY
A EYE FOR A EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH

coffee   January 25th, 2009 10:36 am ET

I just want to answer a couple of questions.

First of all, we don't have the death penalty here in Mass.

Secondly, she was not in jail for a year, she's been in PRISON for 10 years.

Third, I believe the son WAS behind the whole thing. He knows his mother's diminished capacity and what the power of suggestion can do to her. However, I am still up in the air as to whether she did it or not.

Police did NOT find ANY traces of an accelerant. He could have set a slow-moving fire before he left for work. Remember, he DID set a wreath that was on the door on fire once before. And I wish I could find the article, but somewhere I read that there WAS a short period of time where he was unaccountable for, even though he was at work.

Flo Dering   January 25th, 2009 2:17 pm ET

All I hear from the witnesses are endless details about the fire and its victims, but I don't think anyone is questioning that the fire was terrible and that those five people didn't deserve to die. Where is the evidence of this woman's guilt? Why would she set fire to the house where her beloved grandchildren lived?

If she was wealthy and mentally competent, she would never have spent 10 years in prison before her trial.

Nanimeow   January 25th, 2009 9:18 pm ET

IQ isn't a good determination to tell how someone will act. Also, ANY mental problems are so broad, just saying some who is retarded is like describing someone with "a lung problem". And we know not all lung problems are caused by the same thing. There are many different types.

dian hyer, nj   January 26th, 2009 10:20 am ET

The fire was a terrible thing, the family/victims can never be replaced or forgotten. But the kathleen Harris I see on tru tv does not seem competent for trial. She seems very confused and mentally disturbed.

John Savarese   January 26th, 2009 11:20 am ET

Can the defense just stipulate that a crime was committed and limit the trial to the issue of the defendant's guilt or innocence? If the defense could unilaterally stipulate, it would prevent the jury from hearing a lot of emotional, prejudicial testimony .

Addie   January 26th, 2009 1:57 pm ET

Does anyone have a lot of trouble with someone spending 10 years in jail without a trial?

Virginia that Is a very helpful insite.
Coffee, her son being behind the thing sounds likely actually, since he made the threat, but then got an alibi...
Hmm...

addie
New York, NY

Larry C.   January 27th, 2009 4:39 pm ET

It’s becoming very clear that the truth will never be told about this fire. It’s possible that we may never even know for certain that it was in fact arson. Without attaching the various motives to support it, arson is not clearly substantiated.
The most important question that will probably never be answered about this fire, if intentionally set, is what the intent was. Was it started in an effort to kill someone specifically? Did that person or persons die in the fire? Was it started to kill someone specifically, but someone else died instead? Was it started with a specific area of the building targeted to be involved in fire? Or was the fire started as a simple malicious act, with no regard to how far the fire would extend or who would be involved? Or maybe something else altogether?

Ms. Hilton is charged with Second Degree murder for a reason. I have heard no assertions that this fire was set intentionally in an effort to murder anyone, especially those unfortunate souls that did parish. At most this appears to be a horrible accident if you believe Ms. Hilton started the fire. Please keep that in mind.

gnrmet7   January 30th, 2009 4:41 pm ET

I was in jail with her, she knows right from wrong she also lied about why it took 10 years for her trial to start

wilma harth   February 6th, 2009 11:09 am ET

Having an Aunt who suffered all her life with severe mental illness
, I anguish watching this woman with many of the same delusions
and inability to know the difference between reality and the terrible
ramifications that are part of this illness.
My aunt tryed to kill her 3 young sons in the bathtub and was then commited to hospital where she was released in and out for most of her life.
She mercifully died of heart disease 5 years ago.
I loved her and watched as she was continually ignored and abused
by the "mental health system" medicated continually until she rarely
had any moments of clear thinking.
I know she is in a better place now and I hold the mental health system guilty for the failure to give her even a small semblence of a "normal life!!!

Paula Sanfilippo   February 9th, 2009 9:03 pm ET

I think she knows how to "work " the situstion at hand. Meaning she acts stupid when she wants but seems very intelligent in other situations.

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