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April 3, 2008
Posted: 02:20 PM ET

NEW YORK – An alleged plot to knock a Georgia woman unconscious with a crystal paperweight, bind her with handcuffs and tape, and then stab her with a steak knife has been foiled. But the nine suspects behind the plan may not face any substantial penalties.

ALT TEXT
The third-graders brought a knife, a paperweight, handcuffs, duct tape and gloves to school.

That’s because they’re in third grade — ranging in age from 8 to 10. Read more

Police say the group was targeting a teacher who disciplined one of the girls by putting her in “time out” after she stood on a chair. They supposedly had it all planned out — assigning tasks to cover the windows and clean up after the attack.

“We did not hear anybody say they intended to kill her, but could they have accidentally killed her? absolutely,” said the Waycross police chief.

Two of the children have been charged as juveniles with aggravated assault, possession of a weapon and a third student with conspiracy to commit aggravated assault. But the children are too young to be charged with a crime under Georgia law.

District Attorney Rick Currie was quoted as saying, “When they created the juvenile code, nobody contemplated this kind of incident.” The system is not set up to handle this type of situation.

Children in Georgia can’t face criminal charges unless they are at least 13. While a juvenile court judge can declare those younger than 13 delinquent, Georgia doesn’t have detention facilities for third-graders.

School officials did say they have punished all nine students, and some received long-term suspension. While experts in child psychiatry doubt the children would have actually carried out the plot, we still have to ask whether the judicial system needs to lower the age range in handling delinquent children. Read more

Are we going to have to start locking up kindergarteners? A troubling societal dilemma indeed.

Bob Regan, In Session senior executive producer

Filed under: Bob Regan


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Alawyer   April 3rd, 2008 3:33 pm ET

Absolutely moronic. That’s about all that I can say about the chuckleheads who have turned an elaborate childish fantasy into a crime. Kids have always played games that involve bizarre conspiracies. If these kids said that they were going to hijack a plane, would you have believed it or taken it seriously? How about the one that my friends and I were going to do when we were 8 - rob a bank and fly to Disney Land? We had masks, and a very elaborate plan - then we went home for supper and moved on.

The police got their 15 minutes of fame here, as did the school officials. They can all claim that since Columbine or Jonesboro, they need to take everything - no matter how silly - as a potential threat. In the meantime, they have probably over-punished children far too young to understand and appreicate the nature and consequences of their actions. These kids would have been better off under the old common law standard of the rebuttable presemuption of incapacity for people less than 14.

As for the age at which we charge children with crimes - do your research. The United States has the lowest age of criminal responsibility in the entire world - the Biblical 7 in most states - and no minimum age in places like Florida, where during the past three years, children 5 years old have been dragged out of their classrooms in HANDCUFFS after throwing old fashioned temper tantrums. Even Great Britian and Canada set 10 as the minimum age of criminal responsibility, and most European Union countries set 12 as the minimum age - and some even use 14! That’s not the age for trying children as “ADULTS” but for bringing any sort of criminal charge against them. Georgia routinely tries children 13 and 14 as adults for any purported violent offense, and a Georgia paper editorialized just last week that there should be no minimum age for adult treatment after a 12 year old was used by an adult in a horrible murder scheme - the idea being that 12 year olds have totally free thought, even when under the spell of monsters.

The United States permits the criminalization of small children for childish acts and childhood behavior under the guise of helping them in the juvenile system. Yet - our juvenile systems are increasingly brutal and punitive. Our courts openly allow children of any age - no matter how small, to be handcuffed and shackled at the feet - lest they escape from their captors. They are fingerprinted and strip searched and placed in juvenile jails. We have now developed a crib to prison pipeline for poor and minority children. This current case exemplifies this reckless brutality and stupidity.

Lindsay   April 3rd, 2008 3:37 pm ET

Absolutely not should we JAIL children! They may be bad seeds but not criminally minded… kids “misbehave” all the time be it due to social factors or lack of discipline from the parents… the kids should not ever be charged of a crime they should be sent to a rehabilitation clinic and the parents should attend MANDATORY parenting classes. There is hope for these kids, don’t count them out. As a society we are too quick to prosecute and this is a sad society we have become.

Tim   April 3rd, 2008 3:58 pm ET

It doesn’t matter how old someone is! A group of people that conspire to seriously harm someone (possibly kill that person) have some serious issues and must be charged to the fullest extent of the law! I can’t even imagine how that teacher (potential victim) must be feeling. If someone (doesn’t matter what their race, gender, or age is) threatened to harm myself or another innocent person, that would make me defend myself to my fullest capacity, if that means I could end up killing a nine-year old that pulled on gun on me and threatened my life… so be it!

I’m pretty sure that getting stabbed with a knife by a ten-year old feels pretty much the same if it had been done by a twenty-year old.

Vicki   April 3rd, 2008 4:06 pm ET

WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?! This is disgusting. Why are these kids thinking about MURDER at these ages? There is something wrong with the world today. I couldn’t imagine being another student in that classroom, no to mention the teacher!!! Where are they getting these thoughts from?

I am ashamed.

Marci   April 3rd, 2008 4:18 pm ET

My guess is that by doing nothing we will see these children in the news again in about 5-6 years for more serious crimes - maybe even MURDER!! To me the mear fact that they came up with the idea and had the tools is beyond my imagination. I have children this age and could never imagine them even thinking of such a thing! The parents should be ashamed! Speaking of the parents - don’t these parents decipline there kids? I mean the girl was put in time out and as a result her and her friends planned an attack! This is a sorry story that nothing will come of!

Daniel - Minneapolis, MN   April 3rd, 2008 4:37 pm ET

Should we? No

Will we? Likely, in the future.

We as a society are obsessed with sending people to prison instead of rehabilitating…it’s part of our lack of a long term vision.

Donald   April 3rd, 2008 4:39 pm ET

It is not “a societal dilemma indeed”. It is simply called “Parenting”.

Clark   April 3rd, 2008 4:48 pm ET

These children did not bring these items to school to scare the teacher. This was a well thought-out plot. Maybe the age should be lowered. Children are exposed to so much more violence these days. Perhaps the parents should be held more responsible for their kids actions. The kids picked up these horrible ideas to hurt this teacher from somewhere.

Zoe Ann Ryan   April 3rd, 2008 4:48 pm ET

how about being held responsible and accountable for our actions, if we all lead by example, maybe our children wouldn’t think it’s ok to hurt someone who makes you mad and don’t worry you won’t get in trouble….

KATHY   April 3rd, 2008 4:55 pm ET

They drank too much grape juice for the brain

John   April 3rd, 2008 5:11 pm ET

I do believe they intended to do harm. Whether they should be charged with a crime is another question. I believe the students should all undergo a therapy session and mental health evaluation before being allowed back into the public school system. As uncommon as this may be there is a beginning to every type of crime, whether it be imposed on third-graders or twelveth-graders.

JB post falls id   April 3rd, 2008 5:16 pm ET

WOW.. who ever thought we need to even ask this question, but where do you draw the line. What makes this any different from an adult making the same decsion about hurting someone else??? Intent is intent….no matter how old or young a person is… Just because they are young, doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous. The only thing that will open peoples eyes is that one of these days a kid is going to go to far and an adult or someone older will have to act in self defense….

J. T. Deere   April 3rd, 2008 5:21 pm ET

I don’t know whether “locking up kindergarteners” is the answer, but I do know that children are getting more aware and capable of causing trouble for adults, including their own parents and relatives. I was and still am the victim of false accusations that I sexually molested two preteen children–being labeled a sex offender on the basis of false accusations being taken as true is something this country has seen increase over the last several years. The accusations stemmed from the belief one child had that I had “preferred” talking and working with someone else instead of him; he decided to take revenge.
There is a need for major reforms in the criminal justice system, and
this includes making children more aware of the consequences of their actions.

Geoff Munger   April 3rd, 2008 5:26 pm ET

We’re quick to react to the shock of this story, but we shouldn’t always rush to label children as ‘delinquent’ just because their actions scare us. It’s difficult for adults to remember that children under the age of 10 see the world around them very differently than we do.

At the age of 9, I hadn’t ever seen anyone hit hard on the head with an item like a paperweight, and I might not have realized the damage that can be done. I can remember, however, that my parents did everything they could to keep me from being exposed to gratuitous violence on television, so the very idea of violence wasn’t . These days, violence is pervasive all around us, and even more important than its pervasiveness is its lack of realism. A child can watch tv shows or movies in which the hero or bad guy gets beaten in the face with rocks, lead pipes, and worse, yet walks away with a litle cut, a smile, and a witty one-liner. At worst, hitting someone over the head with a paperweight in a movie means they fall softly to the ground, only to wake up a short while later rubbing the back of their head and, within minutes, recover fully. Who is to say that a 9-year-old has a true sense of what might happen when someone really IS hit over the head with such a heavy object?

I don’t know any more than what I’ve read in this story, and mabye these kids really did know what they were doing. But then again, maybe it was no less a child’s fantasy than when I set out to dig to China in my backyard. I didn’t follow through on that one, either.

Kendra   April 3rd, 2008 5:41 pm ET

if they are old enough and twisted enough to come up with this plan, they are old enough to be tried as adults

Christina Wisch   April 3rd, 2008 6:05 pm ET

Instead of expanding the judicial system to include younger children, why don’t we spend the time, effort and money correcting the school system that is obviously so detrimental that students repeatedly aim to destroy it? Why don’t we fix the social ills that would give a group of 3rd graders the idea that a plot like this would be OK? Why don’t we start actually raising our children with strong morals and ethics rather than roll over backwards trying to raise thier self esteem?

lyn   April 3rd, 2008 6:12 pm ET

I do not necessarily agree with what they have been charged with but I certainly do not think some sort of “suspension” is the answer.

Plus statistics indicate that violence in youger children is on the rise. We need to look at media and “games” that give many times give youger children their introduction to situations that are not real . And as we all know, most young children have trouble delineating between real and make believe. Often children are unsupervised or are “babysat” with these options while adults are busy ar otherwise occupied!

I don’t know about the ability of the children in this story to carry out a “plot” but I do think that ANY potential weapon (like the steak knife) could have caused one of the classmates or other children (younger or older elementary) a serious wound if the child with it was angry at another child in the school and decided to take out the anger on the said child. What happened has to be nipped in the bud somehow before other similar situations arise. Remember Columbine-now there are many other Columbine-like school shootings to a lesser or greater degree-but they have proliferated and teachers are not neccesarily the only victims!

Marvin   April 3rd, 2008 6:28 pm ET

I cannot understand! These are the kind of incidents that could lead a child down the wrong path to crime. Of course they are in the third grade but something has to be done, the teacher could have been killed and then we would have all been stunned. It is my belief that it takes a village to raise children and we have lost focused on the big issue. We are dealing with and epidemic of juvenile crime and it is not only affecting one group, it is crazy across the US. A message needs to be sent to parents and kids that this type of behavior will not be tolerated at all. Those kids that were involved should be removed from that school to insure that others will not take part in illegal activities such as these. I remember getting spanked for bad behavior, now its time out. WHAT HAVE WE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

William   April 3rd, 2008 7:19 pm ET

How much do you want to bet that the parents are going to blame video games or music? After all, it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the way they brought up their children now, could it?

Penny   April 3rd, 2008 7:21 pm ET

That is just great.. show these children how to commit a crime and then don’t punish them for threating someone. Those Children need to know that this was serious. They need to know that they WILL NOT get away with breaking the LAW IF they are not punished (and not a slap on the wrist) they will just shrug their shoulders and try something else later on

Brian   April 3rd, 2008 8:02 pm ET

I’ve been in the law field for almost 15 years. During that time, I both prosecuted and defended juveniles. While a prosecutor I was confronted with a 12 year old referred for repeatedly kicking on a metal door when the librarian wouldn’t let him in before hours (technically disordrly conduct for disturbing the peace and quiet of the librarian). Incredibly, due to a procedural fluke, the juvneile spent the night in lock up for this offense. I also received referrals for throwing spitwads (technically an assault because it left a mark on the victim’s knuckles) and obstruction of justice (juvenile refused to testify against an older woman he was having sexual relations with).

The juvenile justice system is the most troubling and difficult area of the law in existence. From mandatory and arbitrary applications of “adult crime adult time,” to the refusal or inability of schools to handle their own minor discipline problems, passing the buck to the police and the courts, the problem is far wider than a conspiracy among third graders. Each case presents its own dilemmas, its own tragedies; and there are seldom winners, only losers.

We need to examine juvenile justice — and indeed juvenile issues in general — according to the maturity of the child and the nature of his/her misdeeds, rather than applying numbers randomly selected by the legislatures, whether they be 13, 14, 16, 18 or 20 …..

There are no answers, only more questions……

Melissa M   April 3rd, 2008 8:09 pm ET

This story makes me fear for the future of our children and our country. This is yet another story of a child who was never taught how to properly deal with anger. I don’t believe children are naturally evil, the fault usually lies with parents who refuse to teach their children to respect all human life, take responsiblity for their actions and fear God. I pray that this child finds peace in her life - and I hope authorities require her and her parents to enroll in therapy to help her understand that rational people (even children) do not need to resort to violence to solve their problems.

brad campbell   April 3rd, 2008 8:10 pm ET

This is a real problem ! Even though they are third graders, they had everything they needed to carry out the crime. Where I come from that
means they were ready to do what they talked about. Things like this should not be over looked. Kids these days are way different than they was 30 yrs ago. Kids now a days kill people !!! What should we wait till they actually do it ? Then we can say ” we didn’t think someone that young could kill a person”. Well it is time for us( Grown Ups) too wake up.

Joan Fleshman   April 3rd, 2008 8:21 pm ET

Kids these days are more violent, verbally abusive, disrespectful and it is all from the lack of parental discipline and caring. I’m so glad that ours sons, age 24 and 25 years old now, have grown up to be fine young men. Teachers cannot use the punishment we all grew up with, thanks to new laws. (I personally hated the methods the teachers used on me back when I was in school…but I understood PLAINLY from that point on what was expected of me.)

There are parents that care enough to use discipline (without being abusive) and still show love. And it shows in their children.

I’ve been around a lot of kids of all ages…and I can pretty much see which ones need MORE discipline. If not from the parents, then from a parental figure.

No matter what your age, plotting to kill anyone is wrong. Or plotting to maliciously wound someone. These kids need to be punished–NOT warned to not do it again. They need to be sent for mental health issues. (Obviously, they aren’t in their right minds.)

They AREN’T insane!! And the medications didn’t do it. Find something else to blame.

Brian   April 3rd, 2008 9:34 pm ET

If these children are not taught the difference between right and wrong now, they never will learn. If these children’s parents aren’t able to teach these kids that they will face stiff penalties if they do this sort of thing, special steps need to be taken. What will these children do later in life if they are allowed to get away with this with basically no punishment, in my day, a suspension from school was a vacation. When they are teenagers, what crimes will they move up to?

Iris   April 3rd, 2008 9:44 pm ET

I do not agree with the judicial system lowering the age range in handling delinquent Children.. Of course these children need some serious help, psychiarty evaluation should come into play ,along with reqular counseling, and anger management classes.

The thrid graders should be made aware of the seriousness of their actions had they been successful at carrying it out. Where are the mentors, Big Brothers and Big Sisters programs in the school or commuity.

How about bringing back the scared straight program for these youngester. We can prevent them from becoming criminals at this young age before its to late. How about a moitivational coach to empower them with positive habits.

Sending these young children to prision is a no no. There just has to be another way to save our children.

Denver Morgan   April 4th, 2008 12:46 am ET

“Are we going to have to start locking up kindergarteners? A troubling societal dilemma indeed.”
IF you really think we need to lock up children you are so STUPID.

Jana   April 4th, 2008 2:50 am ET

What a disgrace. These are the types of kids that, when their parents come home from work, they could find their homes going up in flames because of these terrible, bratty kids. They knew better. They would have severe punishment if they were my kids but, they wouldn’t be my kids. It’s too bad they can’t face VERY HARSH punishments, they sure do deserve it.

The parents must be real winners too!

Jana   April 4th, 2008 3:02 am ET

Further more, those kids being in ages of 8-10, they certainly knew better. They knew they would be in serious trouble in attempting to carry out this unthinkable act. I wish I could work interrigation because, I would chew the crap out of these kids. I would put “the fear of God” in them. All balls out boy, they would get the riot act from me. If their parents have any balls, they will put these kids on TOTAL RESTRICTION for the minimum of ONE YEAR. No fun activities at all. All fun stuff taken away completely. No t.v., video crap, cell phones, if they have them, nothing but in and out the front door for business only. No friends over, nothing like that.

THIS IS SIMPLY DEPLORABLE and they need to learn it will NOT be tolerated anywhere. Now, they should NEVER be trusted. I sure as hell would NEVER trust one of those kids, let alone the whole pack!

I would probably go to jail myself, there isn’t a punishment harsh enough. These kids REALLY need to learn and, I hope the parents do their part. This is a huge, serious offense that could have been deadly. Jesus!

Buzzzz57   April 4th, 2008 6:29 am ET

It’s time to lower the age from 13 years old to 10 years old. Crimes are becoming more popular with younger ages. You don’t have to be older to kill someone or attempt it. Aren’t children being taught how to deal with anger?

AM   April 4th, 2008 8:23 am ET

This is a clear reminder of what society has become. I do not think that changing the juvenile system is going to help the matter because at that age they do not have the ability to understand what it would be like in a detention center. Kids in America need to be taught morals and values. I do not really want to bring religion into it but they need the fear of God. People say you can teach your kids the value of a life etc. and consequences of actions, but if children want to kill because they are given a time out for something they admittedly did then they are obviously not used to being reprimanded so they are ultimately not being taught that their actions have any consequences. Twenty years ago, we were scared of adults, we were scared to get our spankings, and we were scared of God. This society is only going to deteriorate. I say let us hold the parents responsible for the children’s actions for once.

Haley   April 4th, 2008 8:31 am ET

okay this is very messed up.i wouldnt want my kid in my house after they did something like this.id be scared for my life what if i told them they couldnt have a cookie would they take me life.these kids need help there is something wrong with these 3rd graders.suspension is nothing to these kids.suspension wont change what there minds think.if the law in georgia isnt suited to punish these kids properly then the law needs to have a few changes.

Cheri   April 4th, 2008 9:19 am ET

Obviously we need to amend the legal system to accomodate younger offenders. Let’s just say for instance these children would have succeeded in their plot and the teacher was indeed injured seriously, would it be a comfort to the community as well as other educators to know that they may come face to face with one of these children in a teaching capacity within weeks of this attack? Even if these children should be expelled from this particular district, they will go to school somewhwere. This “band” of children may very well be re-directed or rehabilitated with expulsion and counseling, however, what about the next time? What about the 8, 9 or 10 year olds that come to school with the intent of doing harm, and actually carry out a plan that kills someone. Or several someones. Will we as a society hold them responsible? Or will we continue with a legal system that does not allow for them due to their age?

Rex   April 4th, 2008 9:25 am ET

Where are the parents of these children?????
Why worry about the courts with children this young, the parents should be stepping up and taking care of this !!!!

Veronica   April 4th, 2008 9:30 am ET

What are they gettting all this stuff from now days you dont know you is going to kill 3rd graders they need some kind of punishment because all they will do is think its ok because there 3rd graders and its not ok that was a innocent person tring to help them out. And the parents should be ashamed of themselves thats a lack of disipline.

Valentina   April 4th, 2008 9:35 am ET

I think they should get a punishment just as well as anybody else would just because there 3rd graders it ok its not and that just what they will think if they dont get punished. Then other 3rd graders will think its ok and its not there is a punishment for every crime.

Becky   April 4th, 2008 9:49 am ET

I think there should be some kind of memorable punishment for these children. I have a 9 year old daughter and I have a 22 & 15 year old sons and I would have tore my children up for such behavior & or association with other kids that would do such a thing. By far my children are not perfect and neither an I but this crosses a line of values, morales, & common decency towards a fellow human beings life.

I am not sure what has happened to our society that this would or could be even over looked and I really hope it does not go overlooked but these things are actually unacceptable to some people still. It doesn’t matter if specialist think these kids could have carried it out what matters is they were going to try to do this and in the process if they didn’t hurt the teacher they could have stabbed one of the other children involved and I am sorry doesn’t bring back a persons life or take away the pain that a family goes through when they have lost a loved one.

The state needs to have these kids doing community service until they are 15. Have those kids clean animal pens at the shelters and so forth. Those kids obviously had too much time on their hands to think up a way to hurt someone give them some good to do with their time for the punishment like helping elderly people and so forth.

Crista   April 4th, 2008 11:03 am ET

How scary!!!! I’m wondering where the children got this idea at such a young age. T.V.? older siblings?, or worse yet parents?

Nina Anne   April 4th, 2008 12:09 pm ET

It is sad to see this kind of thing happen but it should be carefully considered. Thirty years ago they didn’t have this problem but that was thirty years ago. A lot has changed since then and society has evolved into something that is not favorably looked upon. We should consider having a “juvi” for 8-15 years old that only deals with that age. Don’t hold them in a setting with older children or even adults because they won’t learn anything good and continue with the bad habits they posses. Another point we need to consider is where are these kids getting these ideas from in the first place? Most likely it is the television. In this case, parents need to take a proactive position and monitor what the kids are watching.

Beth   April 4th, 2008 3:22 pm ET

These children have not been “raised”. They have been allowed to “raise” themselves, and consequently, have no concept of what is allowed and not allowed. What in their home lives led them to think that this was an acceptable response to time-out?
It appears that these children have never been disciplined in any kind of way, outside of the school system. If there are no consequences to your actions at home, where you are supposed to be taught acceptable behavior, why would you think that there are consequences anywhere else? The blame for this situation belongs with the “parents’ of these children.
Parents must take responsibility for the actions of their children. As adults, we are expected to teach them social skills, including acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Obviously, this has been lacking from the childrens training. Until we hold parents responsible for the lack of acceptable behavior from children, the situation will only get worse.

Tamisha   April 4th, 2008 3:35 pm ET

While locking them up might not be logical, I agree something has to be done. I work and mentor kids who are just as dangerous as an adult. If you keep making excuses for them know without them realizing the major consequences, when they get older they will see things the same way. I agree, WHERE ARE THE PARENTS? Probably at home “watching” and not “raising” these kids. While there are parents who try their best, most children who think of schemes like this “say” they try but what is their meaning of trying? I can’t stand to hear stories like these but it is so common. For some, its hard to believe and understand because it may not happen to someone you know personally or to you. Think about how many times teachers are threatened with harm when children don’t like what they said? I pray for the teacher who had to go thru that. Can you imagine the what if’s she may be having?

Erica   April 4th, 2008 3:51 pm ET

I blame the parents for must of this horrible behavior. These children had every intention on hurting the teacher. There was a clean up crew!
I understand that the law has not kept up with the realities but I believe the parents should be held responsible and the children should be forced to attend a school for juvenile delinquents. Who would want to teach them after this incident?

Ola   April 4th, 2008 4:21 pm ET

This is so sad and wrong on so many levels. If a children at 8 are thinking like this. They are failed by their parents and society. At the age of 8 there still should be innocence.

I do not think it is right to send an 8 year old to jail. Maybe I feel this way because I am a mom of a 7 year old and my son still sucks his thumb when he sleeps at night. He is not mature and truly does not have a good understanding of many things. I think sending a child to jail so young is distructive to that child every seeing himself as a good member of society. I also do not think the child should should or the parents should get off so easily. The parents an children should be forced to see social worker have at least 2- 3 years of Mental and Behaviorable counseling.

If these children are exposed to better things they will be better. We are what we think , see and do. Self control and respect is learned. We all have good in us. These kids should be molded better.

Gina   April 5th, 2008 12:46 am ET

They had the intent to do the teacher bodily harm. They KNEW they would be causing her harm. That should be all we really need to know. they knew it wasn’t some sort of cartoon, hit her with the paperweight, stab her and she’ll be fine. Kids today are a LOT smarter than we give them credit for. The reason they had this plot was because one of the had been scolded. I wonder if that scolding was the first one he’d ever had. (We don’t want to give negative feedback, it might ruin his creativity after all; what a crock!)

Kids are raising themselves or worse; they’re the ones raising their parents. I believe I also read that these children are supposedly in a special education class…. they seem pretty normal to me. They could develop such an all encompassing plan for immobilizing the teacher, and a cleanup crew for afterward (so you can’t tell me they didn’t know she wasn’t going to be hurt or worse… if they didn’t think she’d be hurt, why the cleanup crew….) add in the fact that they had at least 9 people involved and they managed to keep it quiet up until the day they planned to attack. That takes a great deal of organization, planning and to be honest, guile.

They had every intention of causing harm to another person. They should all be punished. I’m not saying that jail is appropriate; but they should receive more than a “time out”. This is incredibly serious! When did we stop teaching our children than actions (and in some cases, thoughts and plans) have consequences?

Stephanie   April 5th, 2008 11:22 am ET

I believe that these children should undergo counselling. Although i would love to see them be held criminally responsible for their actions, children of this age cannot understand the reality behind stabbing someone. I dont believe they were looking to “murder” this person.. but not thinking that it was possible is the exact reason these infants should not be charged as adults.
Now dont get me wrong, I believe at a very young age most children are taught the difference between right and wrong,… and by 8 years old they should understand that violence is not the way to deal with a situation that is not suitable to your liking.. and this is why i believe that these children should be in treatment! Not behind bars.. when they are just simply punished, NOT rehabilitated. Really.. what does jail do for a person? It doesnt reflect on why they did what they did. It just isolates them from freedom.. which in turn makes most go crazy.. does not magically turn them into productive members of society. Some will learn from isolation.. but most dont. These are children.. I believe they should be given another chance..

But of course their parents should be punished. I dont believe parents should be held fully responsible for a 16 year olds actions.. as they tend to have a mind of their own.. but at 8 and 10 years old.. this is strictly a product of the parent.. They officials should be going directly to the source!

I am sure with all the publicity behind this case.. these children will learn what they did wrong just from media coverage!

Bobbie   April 5th, 2008 12:41 pm ET

Maybe some laws need to change. how about states that claim it is abusive to spank a child? I got a call from school when my son was in 2nd grade. he decided to curse his teacher and kick her. i decided I was going to spank him right there. The prinicipal informed me he would have to report me for child abuse and call the police if he saw me doing this. I was smart enough and angry enough to tell him “you better pick up the phone then” At this point I did not care, my son knew better and i was going to make sure he remembered it. This principal decided to get up walk out and close the door. when i was through, I opened the door and told him “Now we are ready to talk! NEVER had that problem again!

Bobbie   April 5th, 2008 12:51 pm ET

Parents need to be allowed to parent! So called time out is not always effective. One of my children it worked for the other it did no good at all. I found that what others say is old fashioned works better than the so called experts advice today. If you think about it, we had alot less problems with juveniles when proper punishment was applied as needed, without fear. Parents taught kids what was acceptable and drew the boundries. Kids knew about immediate consequences. We got into alot less trouble. It does not take a rocket scientist. Children NEED discipline in order to help them mature and take responsibility for their actions,

chris   April 6th, 2008 11:16 am ET

I guess my question is for Bob Regan, If you or any of your loved ones did a crime, would you want the punishment to fit?

Spider   April 6th, 2008 2:20 pm ET

Guess this means the game of Cowboys and Indians has gone by the wayside?
The fantasy game we played as kids included tieing up our playmates and shooting them with our cap guns. We sometimes would conjure up elaborate schemes to break our fellow gang members out of the local jailhouse that often involved the killing of the local sheriff.
Once, with a small water gun hidden in my sock, I was able to single handedly and systematically kill off all the members of a gang that had captured me.
I now feel terrible about the damage that I must have done to my psyche. The proper thing, it seems, would have been for me to turn myself in and enjoy the soothing and therapuetic effect of a trip through the juvenile judicial system to ease my obviously troubled mind.

dan   April 7th, 2008 1:12 pm ET

This is a troubling question for me to, because I think there are some competing, and very convincing claims.

On one hand, these kids planned an attack, and went even further, to secure the means of carrying out their plan. They had clear intent, partially realized, to commit some very grave offenses.

On the other hand, what’s to say that these children would benefit from prison? or even detention? Did they even understand the magnitude of their plan’s consequences?

Then there’s the issue of the people that would be around these kids if they’re not removed from society. If I were a parent with a kid in one of these schools I’d picket the front doors daily until my children weren’t forced to go to school with sociopaths.
The third one is what bugs me the most. There seems to be an awful lot of concern for what’s going to happen to these kids, but I really, personally could care less. best to get them out of society and leave it to the ones who aren’t placing other people in danger.

MJB   April 7th, 2008 3:08 pm ET

Certainly something needs to be done with these kids. Medical help for sure, along with the parents. Children are not taught morals or
civility in the home and in the schools. BOTH have got to be involved. Many children are coming home from school with no one home or if
there is a parent, they are busy doing other things leaving the children staring at the TV or computer. Children mimic their parents. Parents have left the upbringing up to the schools. This has got to stop. The teacher is to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic so of speak. Parents get involved with your children. Teach them morals right from the start. Ohooooooo! I might have to say NO once in awhile.

shel   April 7th, 2008 3:19 pm ET

I didn’t see this issue addressed… The problem probably started with only one of these kids. How in the world could that many kids get involved? The most horrifying thing about this whole episode is that so many LITTLE CHILDREN would be willing to join in. Did anyone try to stop this except the one child that told someone? Didn’t anyone try to teach these kids right from wrong …. at LEAST the golden rule? It sounds like lots of parents need to take a second look their parenting.

Steve   April 7th, 2008 7:08 pm ET

Fear is the biggest business in America, and those who advocate throwing these kids in jail are the true victims here.

Ina Lopez   April 7th, 2008 8:27 pm ET

As the mother of a SPECIAL EDUCATION student, as these children were (8-10 years of age) , it’s no surprise to me. You should hear of all the horrendous things that these so-called “educated professionals” do to these children under “their care, control and custody”. There’s always two-sides to a story. If these disabled, special education services were provided to these kids and there was a camera in the classroom and areas they have access to, I think we’d see alot more=ie.,”nanny cam”. They had alot more happening in that classroom than they are telling us. Can’t blame the parents, after all, the kids were with the teacher, where they were required to be by law. JUST WHAT ALL HAPPENED TO THEM TO MAKE THEM FEEL THEY NEEDED THIS CONTROL?

Mark   April 8th, 2008 1:23 am ET

I think the most important issue to consider about this incident is the intention behind it. These children were certainly ready and, as it appears, would have gone through with this plot had they not been stopped. That is the crucial detail that pushes the situation beyond something that one can just overlook. I’m certainly not saying that we should lock these kids up - that would do considerably more harm than good. However, the kids definitely need to undergo psychological counsuling, because that’s perhaps the only thing that will actually reduce the tendencies to think/commit these acts. The bigger issue to tackle, however, is the mere fact that this happens in the first place. It’s impossible to place the blame on a certain cause, whether it be bad parenting, increasingly violent entertainment, society in general, or a combination of all of the above. We can’t merely treat the effects, we have to get to the source of the problem. Thats how we’ll be able to prevent these incidents from occuring and lessen our need for increasingly brutal juvenile jails and other punishment-based retaliations.

Brian   April 8th, 2008 4:16 am ET

Marvin, the idea that it takes a village to raise a child is just what people say when they don’t want to take the responsibility to raise their own children correctly. But I agree that these children should not be given a vacation from school as punishment.

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