These people preyed on a little girl. She will be affected in a multitude of ways by the horrible things they did to her. I believe they should be forced to take medications if that would constitute ability to stand trial. There needs to be justice for Elizabeth!!!! How many more people are going to plead insane so they can commit whatever wretched crime they want and get away with it!!

Not a problem. Place them both into a mental ward, under forced treatment.
Do not allow them to be released for at least 15 years. Games will not and should not be played.

How can she be competent enough to fight NOT to take medicine, but not competent to stand trail for the crimes?????

If Wanda Barzee truly believes that God talks to her through her television shouldn’t that have told her doctors that the t.v. needed to be taken away from her long before now?Why are they allowing her to continue with her delusions?For that matter, why is she even allowed to watch t.v.?Why was she given one in the first place?She’s in a mental hospital.She’s supposed to be getting TREATED for her mental illness, she should not be allowed to watch t.v. & she certainly should not be allowed to continue to believe she’s God’s chosen one.She is sick.Mental hospitals are supposed to be for TREATING the mentally ill & making them more or less normal & able to function in society(or in her case making her competent to stand trial).I thought mental hospitals were supposed to take patients’ rights away & give them any & all treatment necessary.Why do they need to have hearings on whether she & Brian Mitchell should be medicated?Medication should have been administered when they first stepped foot in the hospital.

crazzzzzy

So many crazies, so little help….

This story is disgusting. That poor girl had to withstand god knows what and these people are just getting away with it. At least they are being held and cannot do this to some other child. If they are being hospitalized for their mental conditions, the only way they can give them any kinds of meds is if they are acting out so bad that they do have to force something on them. Otherwise, if they are acting normal there is nothing that can be done. But they should still have to stand trial for what they did, maybe with just a judge who can sentence them to the hospital Forever for what they did to Elizabeth Smart.

This child was tormented, scared and tramatized for nine months and NOTHING is being done about to hold these people accountable. They are claiming they are mentally incompetant yet they were able to avoid capture for NINE months and now obviously they are smart enough to avoid trail. This is absurd! This girl and her family need closure so that they can move on and these wackos are just adding more trama to the situation!

I suppose by refusing medical treatment they will forever be incompetent to stand trial. Incompent people should not be competent enough to refuse treatment. Clever attorneys they have working for them…AT OUR EXPENSE!!!

You’ve got to be kidding me. Then run the trial without them in the courtroom like someone who left the country to evade arrest. We have a credible witness. Put them away somewhere for life.

I am so glad to see that society sees it fit to provide the maximum protection for criminals and does nothing for victims and law-abiding citizens. Our glorious ‘justice’ system is not designed to help society, it’s designed to let the criminal element thrive and grow. A bullet in Barzee’s and Mitchell’s heads would be true justice.

If these two people are refusing medical treatment and drugs that could help them, then they are ready to go to trial. What are they going to do, make Elizabeth Smart wait years and years before she can finally get on with her life. Let’s think about the victim here and not about the criminals.

Mitchell is as sane as they come. He just knows how to play the system. And in my opinion, this guy needs old time justice. The taxpayers have paid enough for him.

It’s ridiculous how some religious blowhards can hear voices from god and they are considered insane, and others can hear voices from god and they’re considered prophets. If you break the law, you should be tried and prosecuted for your actions - be consistent, or the law means nothing.

Stop giving criminals more rights than the victims. They did the crime, they should do the time !

For some of us living in Utah, Brian Mitchell is simply crazy like a fox. Every time he walks into a court room, he either starts singing, chanting or yelling. I’ve talked to some mental health professionals who agree that he’s faking it. I think a simple solution is to taser him in his private parts whenever he starts acting up.

Any kidnappings require planning. Planning requires thinking. Thinking requires mental awareness. These two individuals knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. Whether or not they are mentally fit to stand trial right now is irrelevant. They should stand trial for what they did in 2002.

do whatever the system needs to do to punish these people! Elizabeth Smart didnt ask for any crime to be committed against her, yet she and her family are paying the price. that is just stupid to make them suffer more than they already have. someone has to pay, be sure its the criminal and not the victim.

I’m sorry but any one with the enough know how to stake out a house, plan a kidnapping and carry out the plan is obviously well enough to stand trial. I believe in the nine months they held young Smart there was enough time to study and learn how to be incompetent to stand trial. How much longer do these two get to torment the Smart family and the rest of America by not living according to our well established laws? The timeliness of our judicial system is disheartening and I just don’t feel so safe anymore.

This man used to do work in the Smart home. He saw his opportunity and acted upon his own thoughts. The insanity plea is not valid in this case. The streets of SLC are much better with him behind bars..

Our legal system is even crazier than these two loonies. Pretty sad!

I’m about sick of the insanity defense. Some people are truly insane and deserve treatment but when it is used as often as it is then that is proof that there are simply too many people taking advantage of the system. And too many lawyers willing to defend these wastes of life. And lawyers say they are sick of the negative image given to them. Then stop taking these cases with bogus claims of insanity.

Do you remember how happy, amazed and overjoyed you felt when you found out that Elizabeth Smart was found alive and “well” (relatively speaking-considering what she had to endure)?
What a sad state of affairs if these people don’t have to serve the time for the crimes they committed against this young woman.
The court system and the state need to do all they can to help this young woman–dragging their feet and letting this time run out?
shame on them.

I do not understand how they can be competent enough to refuse medications but not competent enough to stand trial. Have guardianship slapped on them and have the guardian authorize the forced medications. This happens in nursing homes in this country everyday. Why should criminals have more rights than the disabled?

Working in the mental health field myself I find that medication should be administered because they crossed the line when kidnapping Elizabeth Smart so therefore their rights for medication compliance decided by the kidnappers should be taken away. Medication compliance is the only hope for the kidnappers. This will also give Elizabeth Smart some peace of mind because she possibly lives with the thoughts of being abducted again and why let her suffer mentally and emotionally more? The kidnappers should also live in a locked up psychiatric unit for the rest of their lives to ensure no one else will suffer like Elizabeth and her family and friends have.

They think they are getting away with this crime? Well, rest assured everyone, they will get their day. God ALWAYS has the last word. Let us not feel so much anger anymore, because when we do then these crazies have us in their pockets. I was mad, angry, frustrated, going insane at these ridiculous events, but I think I’ve come to realize, they will get their punishment. We may not be able to see it, or be there, but it WILL happen. Don’t worry.

If Mitchell was really that insane, he wouldnt have hidden Elizabeth, because he would not thought what he was doing was wrong. He knows exactly what hes doing.

Clearly, we already know the both of them are whack jobs! They kidnapped a 14 year old girl and held her hostage for 9 months of her life! So trying to determine their disorders is pointless, because as I previously stated, anyone that kidnaps ANYONE or ANYTHING has to be psycho! Trying to help them is next to useless too. They need to be locked up along with everyone else who does stuff like that. No more of this insanity plea. We all already know that, so lets break new ground and get Elizabeth some justice for cryin’ out loud!

There is really nothing left to say that hasn’t already been said. What has the world come to? Something has to change soon! It still amazes me that as far as our country has come that injustices like this are still taking place. These people knew what they were doing at the time and they know what they are doing now. It’s not that hard to figure out what you have to do and say to get declaired incompetent! How sad for that little girl. She should be the major focus here, her rights should be what’s important but unfortunately that’s not the case in this country. I love this couontry and most days I count my blessings that I was born here but it’s times like these that make me wonder how we ever got so turned around that we now protect those that hurt our children more than we protect our children.

wHAT CAN I SAY. ONLY IN AMERICA. WHAT ARE WE DOING TO OURSELVES.? ARE WE SELF DESTRUCTIVE? FROM TEXAS

The current judicial system can’t even force this guy to shave or cut his hair. How will they ever rule in favor of forced medication? This man will never be punished for his crime by the American judicial system, and the Smarts are too good of people to take matters into their hands if he is ever released. The lawyers and criminals win, the victims and tax payers loose almost every time. States and the Federal Government would rather cut school funding than to expedite criminal processing. Bet you haven’t heard any of the remaining candidates discuss that issue other than proposed early release of criminals from prison systems. Politicians like to keep the public scared, scared people are easier to control. Just ask this guy.

How can she receive communications from Zion through the TV when she lived in the woods? Sounds like she’s faking this mental ailment. The two of them are the worst of the worst. Hope they stay locked up in jail for the rest of their natural lives. They’re beneath contempt.

What is the purpose of putting offenders behind bars? To keep people safe or for punishment? Maybe a combination of both? So what if they’re delusional or mentally ill or not? These people are dangerous and shouldn’t be out!

Kidnap a child, get executed.
Rape a woman, get executed.
Kill a person, get executed.
Molest a child, get executed.

Violent crimes would drop in half overnight!

I’m so sick of people using religion as a reason to do bad things. Religion is the basis for the terrible victimization of Elizabeth Smart, and for al Qaeda’s attacks around the world.

What will they do next, all in the name of God?

My God is peaceful and loving. I hope these extremists, Mitchell and Barzee included, find him somehow and repent and pay for what they’ve done.

I work in a forensic mental hospital in Florida. The laws differ from state to state, but the general principals are usually the same.

Inform yourselves about the relevant laws in Utah, then decide which part makes you the most angry.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/76_02.htm

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE77/77_10.htm

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE77/77_12.htm

btw, I believe they’re probably both sick, but pretending that their illnesses are preventing their competency. Being ill does not, in and of itself, make a person legally incompetent in any state in the U.S. The symptoms of illness have to interfere with the very specific criteria of competency.

Lastly, I am thoroughly glad I am not the counselor for either of these two.

Send them on down to Texas. We have the death penalty and LOVE enforcing it!

Are you serious? This is what our world is coming to? I cannot believe that they have not been put on trial yet and that now they are debating whether they can go to trial. These are things that make people feel like they can do whatever they want to and get away with it. I am disgusted with the way that this was handled. If only I could say something to their faces. I bet it would be completely different if it was one of the cops of judge’s daughter. The trial would be set no matter what. That is why I hate this world that we are in today. You have to be of some importance to get anything done for you. So wrong!!!!!

If they are as “incompetent” as their defense is claiming, then strap them down & give them the meds they need to get through the trial. Then, lock them up & throw away the key. This young lady and her family need to be able to feel safe again.

Five years is way too long for all of this to be going on. It’s time for all citizens to stand up for OUR rights. Stop the delay tactics and start serving up some justice.

We need to change the way our legal system handles people that claim insanity. My idea is that a judge or judicial committee should first determine if there is sufficient evidence to find the defendants guilty, then the court should ahve the right to force the person to take medication. Once the medication has taken effect then the defendant should face trial. I understand that a defense attorney has the obligation to represent their client to the best of their ability, but that shouldn’t include circumventing punishment by hiding behind an insanity plea. “Rights” should be reserved for the law-abiding citizens of this country.

Things may have changed, but if I remember correctly, some years ago the state of Idaho had a policy of trying people for their crimes. They were either guilty or not guilty of the particular crime. Then it was decided if the person were legally sane or insane. If insane, the person was treated for the insanity. If they remained “insane” forever, so be it. They were held in a mental institution. However, if they were ever deemed “sane” then they went off to prison to serve their time for the crime.

I think that approach would be effective, especially in the cases where the person accused of the crime was good at pretending to be crazy. Separate the crime from the craziness. You either did or didn’t do the crime and then you either are crazy then, now, in the future or not.

I don’t think there should be a statute of limitations on this case at all. They should force these animals who prayed on a child to take medication to get them compentant to stand trial so they can get what they deserve which is to be in prison for the rest of thier lives.

It’s disgusting that individuals suffering severe bi-polar and other serious psychological disorders can be ‘forced’ to maintain their medication regimen under threat of confinement, and that two individuals that committed serious and heinous crimes, against a child no-less, cannot be forcefully medicated to ‘correct’ their delusional state and face justice through trial!

These two individuals are an extreme threat to society at-large and one way or the other, the ’system’ has to find a way to keep them locked up and throw away the key!

Will victims EVER have as many rights as criminals????

I have read all the comments and agree that these two criminals are just playing the system. THEY are the criminals, not Elizabeth and her family. There is really something wrong with our “justice system”. These 2 are as sane as me, and I am very sane.

I bet you any money that at some point during the kidnapping, Mitchell took Barzee aside and said, “If we get caught, let’s make ‘em think we’re insane or incompetent to stand trial. That way we’ll be held in a mental hospital indefinitely. That’s better than going to jail, isn’t it? Just say that you’re receiving messages from God or something…”

They’re playing us BIG TIME.

When sufficient evidence exists to indict a mentally ill person for the abduction and rape of a minor, my standard for forced medical treatment has been met. Clearly, their illness represents a danger to others, and also to themselves, since any person who climbs through the window of another person’s home in order to abduct a child from that home is risking their own life. I am STRONGLY in support of civil rights, but these people need to be locked up and put on some STRONG medication.

This nation has turned a blind eye to mental illness. We say we can’ t restrain and medically treat the mentally ill because they have “civil rights”, but more to the point, they DON’T have medical insurance and no one wants to pay for it. So they live in prisons and homeless shelters, in tents and under bridges.

Elizabeth Smart has paid the price for our negligence, and she will not be the last.

We ignore and neglect our mentally ill neighbors and citizens at our peril.

Our legal system needs an overhaul. Lawyers have pushed all constitutional rights way beyond the intended meaning, basically fairness to competent defendants. I feel certain the framers did not intend it to mean figure out a defense that may confuse and create doubt even if having no factual basis.

These 2 are playing the system. I am so sick of people using mental illness to justify their crimes. If they cannot stand trial, then put them in a mental health facility where they can stay the rest of their pathetic lives.

I agree with Frank, just put them both out of our misery. Are they in the same mental hospital, and visit each other? I hope not, and I also agree they should not be allowed to have access to a tv, or any other luxurious, they lost lost all those rights when the took that girl, They are both acting, and sooner or later, they will be get caught up in their lies. God Bless Elizabeth Smart. We should all continue to keep her and her family in our prayers.

This case demonstrates the need for a verdict of “Guilty but Mentally Ill”, and the Utah legislature should use this case to enact legislation that will provide for it.

Defense attorneys automatically make insanity pleas, and use procedure consistent with insanity defenses whenever it is advantageous to do so, whenever the facts of a case and the laws go against a defendant. It’s a knee-jerk reaction. This is where the famous “Twinkies Defense” came from. We’ve also had “Prozac Defenses”, “Halcion Defenses”, all sorts of silly defense claims. They sometimes work, which we shold be dismayed about. I even saw a case once where a defendant was declared incompetent to be sentenced, and committed to a mental institution, after having been competent to stand trial and convicted of felony charges. Barzee and Mitchell certainly make this sort of defense strategy easier than most other defendants, but the whole country is watching their case, and it’s pretty obvious that something stinks about it.

If anyone recalls the insanity defense used in C. Murray Henderson’s case (Henderson’s victim wrote a book about it), when the former warden of the Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola (also the former Commissioner of Corrections in Tennessee) argued that he was so drunk and so chronically addled by alcohol abuse that he was no longer able to remember that shooting his wife was illegal and no longer knew the nature and the quality of his actions when he slowly pumped rounds from a snub nosed .38 into her over the course of 30 to 60 minutes, after having dismissed the domestic help from the house and having sent the son away from the house, that insanilty defense was used simply because the facts and the laws were against him, so an insanity defense was his only other option out (even though it was silly).

Patients are people, and people are still responsible for what they do, whether they have an illness or not, and we should hold them responsible in our approach to them clinically and with respect to legal issues concerning public safety. This is reasonable and consistent with nature, and will also reduce the advantages that can be obtained by making bogus insanity pleas whenever the laws and the facts of a case happen to go against a defendant.

The laws have gone too far in the direction of empowerment and advocacy, and rights issues have ridiculously overwhelmed issues of responsibility. The net outcome is that society still calls for accountability, so doctors get scape-goated and lawyers get fees for creating a broken system and working in the system they broke.

There is no doubt about whether or not Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell committed the acts that resulted in the charges they have faced: they did it, and there is abundant evidence that proves it. This case makes it so very clear that the Court should have the option of making a verdict of “Guilty but Mentally Ill”.

The public is appalled, with reason. If the public knew more about the legal process, they would be even more appalled.

The laws look foolish in situations like this, because the laws are foolish. It is obvious that these are dangerous people, and if they have mental conditions that influenced their behavior in committing harmful acts then those mental conditions continue to make them dangerous. The only reasonable standard for clinical decision making or for legal decision making holds Barzee and Mitchell responsible for what they’ve done.

If they have mental conditions that make them dangerous, then Barzee and Mitchell are responsible for controlling their mental conditions sufficiently well that they are no longer dangerous, and if they fail to satisfy that responsibility then the state should have the obligation to apply consequences to Barzee and Mitchell for having failed to act responsibly, and the state should take whatever action is necessary to provide for public safety.

If they were both convicted, then there would be a string of expensive appeals that woud waste the public’s money. Eventually questions of parole would be raised. The courts could release them, with no question ever raised about whether or not the courts created a dangerous situation by releasing them.

Then, displacing responsibility from the criminals and from the courts, doctors would be held responsible for any harm the criminals might commit even though there is no way doctors could control them or even know what they were doing. Lawyers would then take fees from the legal process of holding the doctors responsible. This is patently stupid. Doctors can’t make them accept treatment. This even ignores the question of whether or not there’s any effective treatment for what ails them, if anything ails them other than being evil and mean.

The other outcome that is available is that Barzee and Mitchell either walk away from the charges completely, or are given Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity verdicts.

In most states, and the public should be outraged by this, any evidence that is offered by defense to establish that a defendant might be mentally ill during an insanity defense case CANNOT BE USED AGAIN IN ESTABLISHING GUILT OR INNOCENCE. Once the insanity defense is raised, defendants basically have the option of declaring perfectly good evidence against them as no longer available to the prosecution. This is what’s happening in the Naveed Haq case in Seattle, because Washington State’s statutes are particularly silly in this regard. This detail may be what’s ham-stringing the court in Barzee and Mitchell’s cases, too.

So, if Barzee and Mitchell walk away from prosecution or get an insanity acquittal, the courts will hand them over to mental health providers, and then patients’ rights will empower Barzee and Mitchell to not take medication or participate in treatments they might not like. They probably won’t say, “I don’t like it.” They’ll say, “It gives me a side effect,” or, “It’s against my religion,” but they might get away with nothing more compelling than, “I don’t want it.” Eventually, because of laws concerning patients’ rights, Barzee and Mitchell will prevail on the courts to release them, and because they haven’t recently been dangerous they will be released to the community, where we all know they will be dangerous again. We just don’t know when, or how soon. Somebody else will get hurt, and society’s need to hold somebody accountable will then result in, you guessed it, the doctors being held accountable. Again, attorneys will get fees for working in a broken system they broke.

The reasonable fix is a “Guilty But Mentally Ill” verdict, because the court can determine that they did the deed, but they ‘ll get sent for treatment instead of being dumped in general population in a prison, only because we are compassionate. Then they would be followed by a Forensic Review Board that works with the criminal courts and public prosecutors, that supports clinicians in treating these people or confining them when they are dangerous, giving some balance to a situation that otherwise empowers people like Barzee and Mitchell when they want to refuse treatment and get away with shirking responsibility.

These people are not at all mentally incapacitated but far too smart and stringing the legal system along. They should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I am from Utah. I am not surprised that nothing has been done. This state is so backward and they like to pretend that they are progressive. I moved back here from Colorado and that’s when I realized that Utah is like another world. They have their head in the sand and they need to wake up and live in the real world. They need to take these two nuts and put them in prison for life. It’s just that simple.

It was interesting to me that “Barzee claims she is the mother of Zion and receives messages from God ” is used to show her insanity, yet when someone like Falwell, Robertson, etc, say they talk to God people send them money. I’m totally confused. Are they all prophets, insane or merely conning certain among us. Just in case, can I get the address I can send my donation to the mother of Zion.

Despite all the cries for the personal pleasure of vengeance and punishment, often concealed by using euphemisms such as justice or closure, there is a purely logical argument for the case of incompetence to stand trial. If the person was incompetent when the crime was committed, as opposed to having become incompetent at some later time, then medication to render the person competent to stand trial is creating a different mental state in the person than existed at the time of the criminal activity. It is absurd to think that a person who is currently under medication for severe mental disorders, and thus considered “sane”, should have actions judged as though that same person without medication, hence “insane”, would have been capable of a “sane” action at the time the crime was committed. Of course, not trying a suspected criminal does nothing to satisfy the public’s desire for vengeance, nor the district attorney’s desire for name recognition in the next election. The severity of the case has no bearing on the logic.

Whats really going here is that they just want them to plead guilty so that poor Elizibeth wont be forced to go on the witness stand and recount everything these lunatics did to her. And I’m sympathetic to that however at the rate this is going it’s only a matter of time before the ACLU walks in and points out (And rightly so) that you cant just hold people forever like this. You have a right to a fair and speedy trial no matter how deranged you are. It’s fairly amazing how long this has gone on but somethings gotta give.

Incredible that we tolerate this in our society.

Frankly these two individuals are scam artists. They know what they are doing and its a mind game they both are playing. They should be forced to take medications and if they refuse, they should still be tried. The Smart’s famiy wants justice and justice should be served.

If she thinks she hears God through her TV, play a prerecorded message unbeknownst to her on her TV set that says “Hey…this is God…take your medicine”. She may do it willingly!

insane or not,these two should never again be allowed to walk outside.

having delusions is fine, harming a child is not
no matter what ‘illness’ they have, they should both just be shot in the back of the head,…
g’nite!
lights out!
permanent removal from any society!

if everyone who acts on such delusions to harm children is shot dead once convicted, I bet there will be far fewer ‘delusional’ folks acting on their delusions to harm minors.

I agree, if she is competant enough to refuse medication she is competant enough to stand trial. this is so sad. Poor Elizabeth spent 9 months with these psychos, and she will never get justice.

For David J, I agree with you. It’s certainly worth a try!!! That would definitely let people know if she is playing her not. If she actually believes she’s hearing voices from God, then she would take the medicine. If she still refuses to take them, she should be made to stand trial as being sane.

In middle school I met a 15 year old boy who told me he was 1 of about 4 brothers that had killed someone before they were each 13 years old. He told me he walked up to a boy in his previous school, asked him why he was messing with his girl, and then shot him in the head in school. He told me he went to trial and using the temporary insanity defense, got off. I don’t know what excuses his brothers used to get out of going to jail, but I know none of them have ever been long enough to for a murder sentence. I thought he was full of crap, but still had enough common sense to distance myself from him. After several events over the next couple of months I became convinced that the boy had not lied to me and that he & his brothers were in fact more dangerous than I ever would’ve guessed. I went out of my way to make sure my path didn’t cross any of theirs and was very happy when my family moved out of the state a year or so later.

I am now 26 and am opposed to the insanity defense. Whether or not you were crazy when you committed the crime does not mean you shouldn’t be convicted of it. I wholeheartedly agee with someone else’s statement that the person is first convicted or not of the crime. Provided they are, they are punished accordingly (prison or mental hospital). If they are no longer crazy in the future, they can finish out the rest of their sentence in prison.

Wanda & Brian definitely need to be forced to take medicine. They committed crimes using the defense of insanity and need to be cured. Whether or not they stand trial after they are deemed sane makes no difference to me. They should be forced to take medicine & locked up forever in either a hospital or prison.

Kim and rob… have you ever considered changing occupations. I work in the mental health field and find your perspectives very interesting and troubling. Until you spend countless hours evaluating these perpetrators and acquire the necessary credentials, don’t pretend to be an authority on determining a persons culpability and mental status.